134 replies to this topic

[Pjsprojects]

I read a lot of what appears to be total guess work on all three next gen consoles, where are the known facts for the Xbox720,PS4 and for that matter the WiiU as nobody seems to know how far the 'U' is in front of the 360/PS3.

[3Dude]

I read a lot of what appears to be total guess work on all three next gen consoles, where are the known facts for the Xbox720,PS4 and for that matter the WiiU as nobody seems to know how far the 'U' is in front of the 360/PS3.

Yeah we do. its about 2-3x average.

Gpu is modern, rather impressive, but not uber elite powerful. amd R7xx base on a 40nm process *hint hint* With a large amount of edram (32Mb, as opposed to xenos 10Mb)

CPU is impossible and shouldnt exist. Espresso is a tricore power pc 750 at 45nm (750 was discontinued before it ever went below 90nm, because it was unable to acheive core coherency for multicore). Of the same family as Gecko (750 cxe) broadway (750 cle) but not to be confused with broadway or gecko, as it appears to be a custom version of the 750 Fx or possibly Gx. (this is like i3 compared to i5 or i7).

As an architecture with an extremely short instruction pipeline, and aggressive out of order execution, and fantastic branch prediction with practically no miss penalty (xenon/cell had a 500 cycle penalty), it gets incredibly high instructions per clock, which is good because shortpiped architecture cant be clocked high.

Lower clock speed architectures also dont help with simd and flops, and the system doesnt have a dedicated floating point unit like xenon. So simd and flops are much weaker than xenon and cell (then again, so are durango and orbis cpu's) However, it demolishes cell and xenon in dhrystones and branchy code. ie Gamecode and ai.


New consoles will be taking a VERY similar route to the one wii u has taken, albeit higher end.

Wii u recieving the same games as durango/orbis is entirely up to devs. System restrictions dont apply like with the wii.

Edited by 3Dude, 21 January 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Bunkei]

Yeah we do. its about 2-3x average.

Gpu is modern, rather impressive, but not uber elite powerful. amd R7xx base on a 40nm process *hint hint* With a large amount of edram (32Mb, as opposed to xenos 10Mb)

CPU is impossible and shouldnt exist. Espresso is a tricore power pc 750 at 45nm (750 was discontinued before it ever went below 90nm, because it was unable to acheive core coherency for multicore). Of the same family as Gecko (750 cxe) broadway (750 cle) but not to be confused with broadway or gecko, as it appears to be a custom version of the 750 Fx or possibly Gx. (this is like i3 compared to i5 or i7).

As an architecture with an extremely short instruction pipeline, and aggressive out of order execution, and fantastic branch prediction with practically no miss penalty (xenon/cell had a 500 cycle penalty), it gets incredibly high instructions per clock, which is good because shortpiped architecture cant be clocked high.

Lower clock speed architectures also dont help with simd and flops, and the system doesnt have a dedicated floating point unit like xenon. So simd and flops are much weaker than xenon and cell (then again, so are durango and orbis cpu's) However, it demolishes cell and xenon in dhrystones and branchy code. ie Gamecode and ai.


New consoles will be taking a VERY similar route to the one wii u has taken, albeit higher end.

Wii u recieving the same games as durango/orbis is entirely up to devs. System restrictions dont apply like with the wii.

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-durango-unveiled/ <= 3Dude, IF the specs are true (and that's a pretty big 'IF'), any thoughts? I like how you can articulate technical specifications so smaller minds like mine can comprehend.

[GAMER1984]

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-durango-unveiled/ <= 3Dude, IF the specs are true (and that's a pretty big 'IF'), any thoughts? I like how you can articulate technical specifications so smaller minds like mine can comprehend.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

[tboss]

quick looks wiiU uses eDRAM, 720 uses eSRAM, so both should be better for different uses =/.

GPU is 33% below early guesses. or the rumors spec is 50% better then the vgleaks specs. so this is probly more realistic.

better hardware- expensive/exausting gimmics = closer to 1.5-2.5 times better than wiiU overall =/. GPU is ruffly 2x better based on current wiiU GPU rumors, but more of it is spent on kennict. CPU rapes wiiU's. but again good chunk is used on operating system and kennect as well. for pure power and if they didnt use any gimmiks then id say 2-3.5x the power of wiiU.

[3Dude]

quick looks wiiU uses eDRAM, 720 uses eSRAM, so both should be better for different uses =/.
GPU is 33% below early guesses. or the rumors spec is 50% better then the vgleaks specs. so this is probly more realistic.
better hardware- expensive/exausting gimmics = closer to 1.5-2.5 times better than wiiU overall =/. GPU is ruffly 2x better based on current wiiU GPU rumors, but more of it is spent on kennict. CPU rapes wiiU's. but again good chunk is used on operating system and kennect as well. for pure power and if they didnt use any gimmiks then id say 2-3.5x the power of wiiU.

Cpu is actually durangos 'weak point'. If you can even call it that. Im really surprised they went from g5's to jaguars. It has 8 cores, but again they are jaguar cores. And you cant simply effectively use all 8 on a game, even if there was no kinnect or os to worry about.

The speedup of a program using multiple processors in parallel computing is limited by the time needed for the sequential fraction of the program.

Its called Amdahls law of parallel processing.

Edited by 3Dude, 21 January 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[thunderspider]

Cpu is actually durangos 'weak point'. If you can even call it that. Im really surprised they went from g5's to jaguars. It has 8 cores, but again they are jaguar cores. And you cant simply effectively use all 8 on a game, even if there was no kinnect or os to worry about.

The speedup of a program using multiple processors in parallel computing is limited by the time needed for the sequential fraction of the program.

Its called Amdahls law of parallel processing.

In other words, what this means comparing with the Wii U?

Edited by thunderspider, 21 January 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[ElderKnight77]

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Honestly that R7xx carp (I don't think it's a bad card) needs to stop!!!

Edited by ElderKnight77, 21 January 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[3Dude]

In other words, what this means comparing with the Wii U?

Core for core clock for clock, wii u probably comes out on top in integer and branch code performance. Wii us 750fx or gx or whatever custom gets six instructions per core as per standard the 750 line while durangos modded jaguars get 2 instructions per core (albeit clocked higher).

For code that can not be paralellized (gamecode, ai etc) wii u actually seems to come out on top.

For parallelizable code, simd etc, wii u gets a pretty hefty beating at the hands of just half of all those cores.

And the gpu's a nice bit bit better than wii u's as well.

[thunderspider]

Core for core clock for clock, wii u probably comes out on top in integer and branch code performance. Wii us 750fx or gx or whatever custom gets six instructions per core as per standard the 750 line while durangos modded jaguars get 2 instructions per core (albeit clocked higher).

For code that can not be paralellized (gamecode, ai etc) wii u actually seems to come out on top.

For parallelizable code, simd etc, wii u gets a pretty hefty beating at the hands of just half of all those cores.

And the gpu's a nice bit bit better than wii u's as well.

Core for core clock for clock, wii u probably comes out on top in integer and branch code performance. Wii us 750fx or gx or whatever custom gets six instructions per core as per standard the 750 line while durangos modded jaguars get 2 instructions per core (albeit clocked higher).

For code that can not be paralellized (gamecode, ai etc) wii u actually seems to come out on top.

For parallelizable code, simd etc, wii u gets a pretty hefty beating at the hands of just half of all those cores.

And the gpu's a nice bit bit better than wii u's as well.

The difference could be bigger than ps2 to xbox? equal? less?

[3Dude]

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.
Honestly that R7xx carp (I don't think it's a bad card) needs to stop!!!

Evergreen cards are the 5000 series e6760 Is turks. (which, admittedly, is just a barely tweaked e5760 evergreen).

People arent saying its a 7xx chip, just that its a custom made derivitive (just like evergreen and turks are) of the chip line. With as much time spent in development for nintendo as it has, no one really expects it to resemble a baseline r7xx, or the 4xxx card series. That just takes too long to say.

The difference could be bigger than ps2 to xbox? equal? less?

You might as well be asking the difference in goku vs freiza levels.

There is SOOOOO much going on between ps2 and xbox that you cant even begin to use them as a baseline for anything else.

[tboss]

going to look up how good jaguars CPU chips are.

cant really luck up wiiU in detail at all since the used a custom made chip with nothing for 6-7 years being public.
and the thing about custom, we dont know its abilities in detail.

but the current leak looks more realistic than the old leak which gave xbox a 50% stronger GPU, and 8core processer with again, stronger cores. but i expect 3-5 cores set aside for gaming.

[thunderspider]

Evergreen cards are the 5000 series e6760 Is turks. (which, admittedly, is just a barely tweaked e5760 evergreen).

People arent saying its a 7xx chip, just that its a custom made derivitive (just like evergreen and turks are) of the chip line. With as much time spent in development for nintendo as it has, no one really expects it to resemble a baseline r7xx, or the 4xxx card series. That just takes too long to say.



You might as well be asking the difference in goku vs freiza levels.

There is SOOOOO much going on between ps2 and xbox that you cant even begin to use them as a baseline for anything else.

Really, i thought it was about 2x

[GAMER1984]

Evergreen cards are the 5000 series e6760 Is turks. (which, admittedly, is just a barely tweaked e5760 evergreen).

People arent saying its a 7xx chip, just that its a custom made derivitive (just like evergreen and turks are) of the chip line. With as much time spent in development for nintendo as it has, no one really expects it to resemble a baseline r7xx, or the 4xxx card series. That just takes too long to say.



You might as well be asking the difference in goku vs freiza levels.

There is SOOOOO much going on between ps2 and xbox that you cant even begin to use them as a baseline for anything else.

So 3dude do you think the Wii U GPU will have direct x11 open gl 4.2 type "FEATURES"?????

[3Dude]

So 3dude do you think the Wii U GPU will have direct x11 open gl 4.2 type "FEATURES"?????

Its already using some of them.

[Alex Wolfers]

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

Family friendly my ass. Was Zombi U family friendly? Was Ninja Gaiden family fiendly? Was ME3 family friendly? The Wii U is growing up and Nintendo is improving. I made my point.

[GAMER1984]

Its already using some of them.

Like... explain.

Family friendly my ass. Was Zombi U family friendly? Was Ninja Gaiden family fiendly? Was ME3 family friendly? The Wii U is growing up and Nintendo is improving. I made my point.

those games dont prove anything. yes they are mature games but that doesnt take away from Nintendo being a family friendly company.

[DragonChi]

In my opinion, this is the safest generation that Nintendo has ever been in. From what I understand, with all the new comer consoles (OUYA, Steambox, Nvidia Project Shield..) and the other 2 big guns, It will be more or less an even playing field amongst all of them. With noticable, yet small differences. Console archecture this gen is now more to do with stability and resourcefulness. With a slight graphics push. Nintendo is looking pretty good.

As we all know, Ninty has its AAA first party titles that print all kinds of money for them. In addition, the mechanic potential that the Gamepad brings to the table is enticing to a lot of developers and gamers alike. It is a slow start right now, but once this snowball starts rolling, watch this system bloom with flying colors. I dont think they have anything to worry about.

[cannonshane]

The ouya is not intended as a competitor for the home console market. Even the creators of it say that. If they wanted it to compete they would have to up the specs something fierce.

[DragonChi]

yes I know that. I am simply acknowledging that it is there. It does still enter into the equation. If only slightly.