it's true that the current trend seems to be devices that can "do it all" - and that makes sense to me.  It feels clunky to have to fire up a desktop computer when my ipad can really do most of what I want on a regular basis.  I think that Nintendo is right about the cost/benefit not being in their favor (with features such as DVD playback), but the perceived lack of functionality could really hurt them if they don't completely fill the niche of what their product CAN do.  When you have products on the market that can functionally serve as total media hubs, it's starting to look clunky to have a console that just "console"s.  I think that Nintendo will have to take full advantage of web/bluetooth/streaming functionality with this console... because people have just come to expect a lot of options from their electronic devices.

I am SO glad to see some other big Star Fox fans in here... as I have said elsewhere, I would love for Retro to get behind the wheel of this franchise (though I think a DK game is more likely, for the reasons mentioned above).

To answer some of the questions asked above about other franchises, I would DEFINITELY suggest playing Eternal Darkness if you are at all a fan of Puzzle/Adventure games with a scary twist.  The game is definitely not for everyone (it's too slow for some and two horror-esque for others), but I think its story, its depth, and its atmosphere are some of the best in a Nintendo game.  As for Metroid: Other M, I have to say that I am a fan.  I am in the minority for liking this game, I know, but I think that it does actually preserve the core of the Metroid experience, while offering an interesting take on the standard Metroid gameplay.  The script is pretty bad, I can't lie... it's melodramatic, overplayed, and it ruins a bit of Samus's mystique by making her incessantly reflective and overly sensitive... but the overal experience is a good one (cinematics and all), and I found myself happily replaying it on hard mode the day after I beat it.

I'm agreed about the NEW part of the new IP being essential. I like the Nintendo franchises - I really, really do - but I want to see something new; something that takes the Nintendo spark of ingenuity and completely refreshes a genre with a new world, a new set of characters, and a new vibe. They did it with Star Fox in the SNES days, and they did it with Pikmin in the GC days. In my (humble in the sense that no one really cares about it) opinion, it's time for a NEW franchise.

So everyone pretty much agrees on this front (that the Conduit simply cannot fit the bill of flagship FPS franchise for a Nintendo system)... but I'm actually rather interested in the Individual "why's" (especially the ones people are reluctant to mention). Some seem to think that Nintendo is incapable of courting a real "hardcore" FPS at all, while others simply object to the Conduit as an individual franchise.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I think Nintendo has been home to some of the greatest FPS of all time (Goldeneye/Perfect Dark) in earlier console cycles, and I see no reason at all why they cannot do the same thing this next cycle. The Conduit, while fun, is a copycat game on every level, from story to play mechanics and everything in between. This does not mean, however, that Nintendo could not court a real quality, innovative studio - one that could produce the "next big thing" in FPS gaming. Lots of people are afraid to use "hardcore" on these boards as a descriptor, because the reaction is often so severe (for one reason or another)... but really, people, we know what is meant by the term if we are being even slightly charitable. Halo is a deep, innovative experience. It is well crafted and well polished. It does a lot of very interesting and very unique things with online multiplayer, and with open-world combat. People that play competitively and spend lots of money on services and DLC are VERY into this game. It's fun to play, in part and as much as it pains us to admit it, for the same reason that Facebook is fun to use... because it's "cool" enough that everyone uses it. I think that Nintendo can, and that Nintendo SHOULD, play host to a game that does just this - captures the hardcore market with a fresh, innovative approach to the stale FPS formula, and provides the market with an experience that IT thinks is "cool". I know this is distasteful to a lot of people... but entertainment companies really do have to pay attention to what consumers want in terms of theme, tone, and style.

That doesn't mean that Nintendo should sell out on the kind of game that they want to make (that would make for some really clunky and awkward gaming), but it sure as first-person-shooting does mean that they need to court a studio that does want to make this kind of game.

I'm glad someone brought up this topic!  I am personally a big "trophy hound" on Xbox... but I'm also clear-headed enough to admit that this seriously contradicts my stated love of immersion in story and love of gaming for gaming's sake.  The two loves are kind of parallel, but I find myself enjoying both pursuits almost equally.

I think that Nintendo should include an achievement system (even if it only tracks progress in the background, or only for online play), and I like the idea of using upgradeable medals with associated coin values.  Achievements serve a social networking function, if nothing else, and they provide a fun incentive for replaying the game far past its standard life (in this case... the more outlandish the requirements for the achievement, the better).  Playing games is fun, regardless of any "rewards" doled out for playing.  But everyone likes a little swag to pin on for bragging purposes, even if you're only bragging to yourself.  It's like tally marks on an airplane cockpit, or button-collecting at Disneyland...

I do very much enjoy some open world games (Red Dead Redemption being foremost in my mind)... but I think that it definitely needs to be the right kind of game. I think that a Monster-Hunter-esque dragon-slaying epic in a fantasy setting would really suit Nintendo well, and would make for a great open world game.

I liked some of the suggestions above as well... though many of them seemed more like what I would consider "sandbox" games or even RPGs, rather than open world games. I do think that Nintendo needs a good open world game, in any case... and any new IP would excite me!

Yeah... I'm with TRON in his disappointment that Nintendo did not push for better tech.  HOWEVER, I get Nintendo's reasoning for not doing so.

Cutting edge tech would make the system very pricey, and Nintendo knows that it can't push its luck with the market (especially after losing the confidence of so many gamers and developers with the Wii).  Better tech means even longer development cycles for the developers that even bother to take advantage of the hardware (and many won't take advantage of it for many years), and even selling hardware at a huge loss, I doubt that many gamers are ready to pay the $600-$800 that Nintendo would have to sell the console for.

The cost/benefit curve just drops off so steeply after a certain point... it would be hard to maintain a solvent business model selling consoles that offer marginally better partical/lighting effects and reflection mapping than a PS3, but for more than twice the price.  You and I might take the plunge, but I'm guessing (from the sales data on high-end graphics cards, if nothing else) that not many others will.

There are a LOT of very reasonable responses to the original "worries" being posted here, so I won't waste everyone's time by reiterating. I would only add that Nintendo does, in fact, have to "worry" about about its competition... though certainly not, as others have so eloquently explained, because of the obvious fact that its tech will be somewhat "behind" them.

Nintendo's only real worry is the same as it always has been - to stay relevant to a market with decidedly Western tastes and a voracious appetite for social networking. Nintendo has been struggling for a while with these elements... and I think that it is ultimately this battle that will decide the "console war" for this next cycle. Can Nintendo make games that capture the Western imagination (which means some new IPs), and can they keep us connected in the way that we have come to expect from any/all of our electronic devices? I don't know... but I hope so.

Yeah... I don't think that Apple entering the console business was ever seriously being considered here.  The very reason for the Apple's gaming success is the fact that it isn't a console... it's that very "casual-gaming" trend that has people worried in terms of market shift.

People like their interests to move around with them... and as we become a more and more impulsive culture, our interests shift more and more rapidly.  We like to be moving, and when we're moving we like to choose between gaming, social networking, net surfing, movie watching, productivity planning (calendars and such), and music listening as the whim hits us. I am not particularly fond of this disposition, but it appears to be a cultural fact... it feels cumbersome to carry around my 3DS, when I know that all of my apps are on my ipod.  When I am home, I am already starting to resent the fact that it takes so long to really fire up my console and get into a game, because I'm busy.

I like console gaming (as an experience) much, much better than the silly diversions available for iPod.... but I will buy and play ipod games, becaues they are cheap and they fit my lifestyle.  It deserves to be mentioned that Apple never intended to make a gaming device... in fact, they seemed almost to be dragged into the business.  They don't make games, and the "app" store, as has already been mentioned, was hardly designed for games.  That Apple has become direct competition for Sony and Nintendo is due entirely to consumer demand, and not to Apple's evil scheming.

That being said, I'm not sure that handheld devices could ever truly replace consoles (at least not in the near future).  There will always be the form factor to consider - the fact that people don't want a phone the size of a laptop, and that manufacturers can't fit cutting-edge hardware into a smartphone shell.  As far as the experience goes, gamers will always prefer to have buttons (and sticks and triggers too, apparently!!!), and will always demand the kind of high production values that naturally result in enormous file sizes (bigger than you would want to store on a handheld device, or wait to download to one) and appreciable prices.  YouTube hasn't yet killed Hollywood, and Apple won't kill Nintendo either.  Hardcore gaming will always remain a separate market... though perhaps not as big a market as the trends of the late '90s and early '00s seemed to promise.  Lots of people will have the itch scratched by mobile gaming and call it there... us hardcore gamers will always demand our boxes.

P.S. I also have thought about the whole Nintendo/Disney comparison... and I definitely think that Nintendo needs its Pixar.

I think Apple did do SOME evil scheming.

lol... fair enough. I also really like the idea that Retro could be Nintendo's Pixar. I love their work so far... their history as a company just makes me worried that they're not really the same kind of miracle machine with the same kind of creative ethos as Pixar (and thus that their streak of brilliance may be more a fortunate fluke than a result of their creative excellence). Just a worry... I'm rooting for them nonetheless, and I hope they turn out to be the next big studio for the big N.

Yeah, I also have to cast my vote for the style featured in the demo.  I really like the idea of taking a surrealist approach to the alternate dimension/world... but I must say that I prefer what has been called "realism" here to a more impressionistic or cell-shaded approach, for the main world at least.

I also have to wonder about Twilight Princess aging worse than other Zelda titles.  Even OoT and Majora's Mask, some of the most enjoyable gaming experiences ever created, are ultimately - to me - consumable media.  I have enjoyed replaying them from time to time... but they are not timeless masterpieces of art.  I expect a game to capture me when I play it... but I also very much expect it to be of its time and for its time (and this is not a 'diss on the medium's potential as art... I just don't think we are quite there yet, and I don't think we need to be there to legitimize our interest).

I would imagine that, more and more, publishers will be moving toward digital distribution for demos. The costs involved with making physical disks (and mailing them) are a major burden that simply doesn't need to exist... for the majority of consumers, at least.

Of course, there's no reason that a company COULDN'T put out demo disks if they wanted to... I just don't think it will be very likely, or common (because of the cost).

The real issue that this brings up, however, is how easy Nintendo is willing to make it for publishers to get demos uploaded to their online marketplace. Even Microsoft, which is by all accounts a leader in digital distribution on consoles, garners a significant amount of chagrin from publishers over capacity and format restrictions on its Xbox LIVE marketplace (as well as issues of providing adequate exposure to consumers).

man, is anyone else sort of disappointed about the timing on this, though? I was desperately hoping that Retro would have something spectacular ready for the system's launch... this seems like team-building, which is awesome for the future, but sheds some doubt on the state of Retro's current activity. I sure hope that a core team, at least, has been diligently plugging away at an epic masterpiece for the last few years...

yeah, i'm going to have to go ahead and agree with the $300 estimate... if only because (sadly) I believe the rumors about Nintendo hitting the bargain bin on their GPU to keep costs down.

I would GLADLY pay $400-$450 for the WiiU if it featured some solid, forward-thinking hardware specs (not mind-blowingly powerful, which is really outside of a console's reach at a reasonable price, but with enough oomph to output native 1080p while running all the bells and whistles of developers' recently-teased game engine updates).

But hey, that really isn't how Ninty operates (nor what has made them special to me, for that matter). I'll always feel a little embarassed by the specs, and I'll always feel ultimately satisfied by the truly engaging experiences that the company offers me. I DON'T think that Iwata-and-co. will get greedy after the 3DS price debaucle, so I'm confident that we will get a somewhat annoyingly (though not painfully) underpowered system at a reasonable price.

yeah, none of the info on these links is new, and it's STILL just rumor and speculation!  this disparity between reports is really starting to wear my nerves thin... especially as my personality is disposed to believe the doom-and-gloom "not-even-as-powerful-as-the-current-gen" reports over the rainbows and unicorns reports of a mega-machine that will soar confidently into the next generation of technology.

When nintendo says "specs dont matter, enjoy the game" its a turn off for many hard core gamers, because we know what good specs do and thats what we want. (Its because the knowledge hard core gamers have, from pc mostly... its not just a fetish to see good specs.. because hard core gamers, know very well, what does what.. inside the machine )

lol... yeah, as a loyal apologist for Nintendo since the NES days (where is your hedgehog now, you smug, smug SEGA kids from my childhood!!!) I have had ample opportunity to appreciate the irony of my posture toward the company. On the one hand, it feels somewhat awkward being told by a company what you want ("no Mikey, you want to play with this now... that thing that you think you want really doesn't matter at all")... but on the other hand, the people have crafted some of the most compelling, enjoyable, and beloved IPs of all time, and there's something to their idea that the experience is built of far more than visual complexity.

I do agree with you when you say that their attitude will not win back the so-called "hardcore" gamer (and I like your distinction between hardcore and enthusiast... it is quite a useful distinction). The people that they lost are not the mindless trend-followers that they are so often painted to be (as much as I would love to indulge in the vindication afforded by that caricature) - they are consumers, with money, who know what they want, and they will spend money on what they want. They are interested in a certain aesthetic, and a certain kind of horizon of wonder that is afforded by cutting-edge technology, and I don't really think that they will be persuaded that what they actually want is solid play mechanics within a fresh and robust approach to interactivity in games... no matter how compelling the experience might really turn out to be.

ok, ok, everyone... it's clear that Nintendo isn't saying that their console will be "underpowered" by telling fans to focus on games rather than specs...

but seriously, who can deny that this kind of statement pushes certain kinds of very predictable response buttons in people's heads? Is Nintendo really ignorant of the fact that people are GOING to hear "underpowered" when you tell them not to think about specs?

I just think that it is a very disappointing angle to take with consumers... I mean, they point blank admitted that what "a lot of people like" (dissecting specs) doesn't really matter to them, and that kind of statement can be disheartening to consumers already suffering from trust issues with a company due to its perceived willingness to ignore them.

Nintendo's track record with hardware has included a great number of significant lost opportunities due to the decisions that they have made, and I think that people have a right to be nervous about this...

lol... flc, you crack me up.

On the topic-side of things... I guess consoles are kind of in a tight spot right now with where to shoot, spec-wise. They just CAN'T make something on par with high-end PCs, because consumers won't pay that much for a console, and they can't cheap out on the specs because people have seen games running on high-end PCs and tend to expect similar experiences...

On the other hand, the functional gap really is not that big right now. Yes, Crysis 2 really does look astounding on a gaming PC with all the settings cranked to 11... but the difference between that and the Xbox360 version of the game is still not as big as the difference between, say, Black Ops on Xbox360 and Black Ops on Wii. Whatever Microsoft and Sony manage to squeeze out for their next generation, it will certainly not represent a challenge for 3rd party ports to the WiiU. The real question, as has been said, is whether or not the lost fanbase even cares about Nintendo any more...

1. Being that the 1st party offerings we've seen so far have been pretty slim, I would certainly bet on some big announcements/reveals at E3. Nintendo has historically been pretty good at keeping quiet about big projects (with some notable slips, as mentioned above).

2. As everyone else says, it's very unlikely. Announcing the specs creates a centrifugal force, propelling people away from the tightly-controllable presentations and hyped-up game teasers at the conference as they run off to coldly prophesy/calculate the system's potential in terms of numerical values on their own. Nintendo wants to coax and guide your thought process and your expectations through engagement with their experiences, helping you to see their project as they envision it; not turn you loose to spiral down into the paranoia of a tech-based inferiority complex. I mean, have you heard some of the crazy-unrealistic hopes that people have for this tech? No console could live up to these expectations in terms of raw power...

I think Jikayaki's (very valid) point is that a console version of Monster Hunter simply WILL NOT sell as well as a portable version, even though it costs more to make... at least as long as the franchise remains mainly a Japanese affair.

For reference, Monster Hunter Tri has sold roughly 1 million copies in Japan (the US numbers are rather abysmally low in comparison).

Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, for the PSP, was released the very next year and has sold more than 4.5 million copies to date (and is still going relatively strong).

Console versions just don't make business sense to Capcom...

... What?

I just don't think that amazing tech specs would do it... you couldn't make an affordable console that could approach what PCs are doing atm, even if you wanted to.

Like the recently made statement says, it's got to be the games... but what kind of games? Certainly 3rd party ports with marginally better graphics won't do it (why buy a whole new system so you can play the new Battlefield with a few more particle/lighting effects?).

Is it the HD versions of beloved franchises like Metroid and Zelda? Will that bring people to the big N (or bring them back)?

Is it a new 1st party IP? Some good 1st/2nd party exclusives?

I wonder this in all sincerity, as I often waver in my own resolve to pick the system up at launch. What kind of game would it take to put me in line on day one, happy to fork over my $400 for hardware + game?

At the moment, I think that in the absense of a serious reboot (i.e. full reimagining) of Zelda/Metroid/StarFox, it would take a rather epic new adventure game to capture me hook-line-and-sinker. I really want a fresh and compelling universe (no matter who it comes from) - one that I could only get on Nintendo's console; something as captivating as Uncharted, as addicting as Halo, but as polished and solid as Mario. Ninty has taken the risk before with games like Eternal Darkness... and I think it will take that kind of boldness to attract the gaming enthusiast.

What does everyone else think?

I'd like to see F-Zero but a little bit like StarFox adventures. I mean half of the time would be racing, while the other half would be an (open?) world adventure game. It would be IMO amazing.

man, this is an amazing idea... actually most of them are things I could get really excited about. i wish I had been following this post more closely! what strikes me is how many of these ideas are really innovative ways of "expanding" current franchises into new territory

Miyamoto's new IP, perhaps? Monolith's next game (Xenoblade is amazing, after all)? A potential new IP from Retro?

yeah, man... i totally forgot about Monolith for some reason. just the thought makes me stoked for the future. and I'm DYING for a new Retro IP!

They need games that make 14 year old boys feel like they own the world and are special and can blow things up.

That's for today's "hardcore gamer".
The rest of us just want a fun game.

yes, yes, you're clever in your satire and i certainly understand your point... but I don't want to write off those "14 year old boys" simply due to their conventionally touted narcicism! I mean, I like to blow things up too (and own the world, come to think of it)... aren't those valid avenues of enjoyment in video games, after all? I loved sim-city on the SNES, and Blast Corps was fun on the N64 because I got to blow things up. I played both smash bros. and goldeneye at college because I wanted to "own" my friends (and I had to break down and move on to Halo when it came along because Nintendo wasn't willing to continue pushing into new territory on this road... though they made what I consider to be the best first steps of anyone).

I doubt that you yourself have criteria as simple as "a fun game"... right? I mean, what kind of game do you like to play? What would make you run out to buy a new console that you hadn't planned on purchasing already?

I just think that, if Nintendo wants to reach a broad range of gaming enthusiasts, it will need "fun games" of both the endearing-characters-in-charming-environments-trying-to-solve-engaging-puzzles variety, as well as the intense-sci-fi-ownage-with-big-explosions-and-stuff variety.

You always get your Nintendo fans who are hoping for amazing performance from new Nintendo consoles and on the face of it, its realistic to expect the wii U to be more powerful than 360/PS3 because of the wii U being much later but both of those consoles were brought to market making a huge loss and financially neither have been successful...
Personally I think the new Xbox and PS4/Orbis won't be as ambitious as many are hoping for either. So we may find that despite the wii U not being as powerful as we hoped it still won't be that far behind Orbis and PS4 which may end up being only 2-5x as powerful as the earlier generations. The xbox 360 is at least 10x as powerful as the original xbox overall and I don't think we are going to get that difference this time around. I think its all about launching at a competitive price point. I personally think this is the sane thing to do. I went through about 7 faulty 360s as I was an early adopter and it was a complete farce. My 60GB PS2 compatible PS3 has never gone wrong but many have reported problems. This time around it seems like consoles will use mature technology that will hopefully be robust and reliable which I'm quite happy about.

Also lets not forget the wii U will have advantages not directly understood on analysis of the specification to do with modern manufacturing processes. If the gpu, gpu memory, cpu, cpu cache and a few other functions are all integrated onto one large i.c. then the wii U will have incredibly low latency and huge memory bandwidth which will enable the console to be pushed beyond what you expect for the hardware and even just fitting 768M or 1GB of memory gives it clear advantages over 360 and PS3. Also the wii U has a high density optical drive which the 360 hasn't.

this is just a perfectly-phrased analysis... thanks for this

I want a diversity of games, because everybody has a different definition of fun. I have fun with Mario to God of War to Zelda to Uncharted.

agreed, and I think this is the hope for me as well. perhaps the true gaming enthusiasts are the ones who have replied consistently that they really just want a fun game from any genre, and I really respect that, too. I think I, personally, tend to be a "mood" gamer who wants the title I'm playing to match a particular theme that i'm currently "in to"... and I think I was wondering where the real pulse is in gaming, and what would bring these dedicated gamers to the new console in droves (because I want to see the new system succeed)