160 replies to this topic

[DexterousGecko]

In other words, you have no idea what defines a gen in gaming.  Got it.

 

I really hope you were being sarcastic.

So what defines "next" gen?

 

People like to play cute with the term and say it literally just means the next generation of any company's console. Since the Wii U is nintendo's next gen, it is indeed "next gen". If Sony came out with a retro console that had genesis graphics and gameplay, it could be argued that it is sony's "next gen" system, but it wouldn't be anywhere near "next gen" Next gen isn't just in comparison to what a company's console did before. Its a comparison to other current consoles on the market.

 

However, I believe most people think of next gen (at least in term of consoles, PC's will always be superior at least in terms of graphics) as a significant step up in comparison to current games. For example, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Battlefield 3 etc. Right now, the Wii U has not shown anything that is remotely superior to anything the current generation consoles can provide. I keep hearing rumours about wii u versions being the "definitive" versions, but where are these games? The Wii U is Nintendo's next gen console, yes. So far however, it has not proven that it is "next gen" in the broader definition of the word. People can talk all they want about specs and tflops, ram, blah blah blah. It doesn't mean anything when there isn't a single game out that proves Wii U is a significant step up from the ps360.

 

That said, I do believe the Wii U will turn out to be next gen (at least, i'd be surprised if it didn't, it's 7 years newer then current gen systems for goodness sake)

[routerbad]

So what defines "next" gen?

People like to play cute with the term and say it literally just means the next generation of any company's console. Since the Wii U is nintendo's next gen, it is indeed "next gen". If Sony came out with a retro console that had genesis graphics and gameplay, it could be argued that it is sony's "next gen" system, but it wouldn't be anywhere near "next gen" Next gen isn't just in comparison to what a company's console did before. Its a comparison to other current consoles on the market.

However, I believe most people think of next gen (at least in term of consoles, PC's will always be superior at least in terms of graphics) as a significant step up in comparison to current games. For example, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Battlefield 3 etc. Right now, the Wii U has not shown anything that is remotely superior to anything the current generation consoles can provide. I keep hearing rumours about wii u versions being the "definitive" versions, but where are these games? The Wii U is Nintendo's next gen console, yes. So far however, it has not proven that it is "next gen" in the broader definition of the word. People can talk all they want about specs and tflops, ram, blah blah blah. It doesn't mean anything when there isn't a single game out that proves Wii U is a significant step up from the ps360.

That said, I do believe the Wii U will turn out to be next gen (at least, i'd be surprised if it didn't, it's 7 years newer then current gen systems for goodness sake)

It isn't playing cute, stop playing games. Its obvious what next Gen is, and it has never changed.

If Sony brought a legacy system to market as their next gaming console then it absolutely would be their next Gen. They won't though, so you can dispense with the idiotic analogy. Its about when they release, not what the games look like.

[3Dude]

DexterousGecko, on 15 Apr 2013 - 06:15, said:So what defines "next" gen?
People like to play cute with the term and say it literally just means the next generation of any company's console. Since the Wii U is nintendo's next gen, it is indeed "next gen". If Sony came out with a retro console that had genesis graphics and gameplay, it could be argued that it is sony's "next gen" system, but it wouldn't be anywhere near "next gen" Next gen isn't just in comparison to what a company's console did before. Its a comparison to other current consoles on the market.
However, I believe most people think of next gen (at least in term of consoles, PC's will always be superior at least in terms of graphics) as a significant step up in comparison to current games. For example, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Battlefield 3 etc. Right now, the Wii U has not shown anything that is remotely superior to anything the current generation consoles can provide. I keep hearing rumours about wii u versions being the "definitive" versions, but where are these games? The Wii U is Nintendo's next gen console, yes. So far however, it has not proven that it is "next gen" in the broader definition of the word. People can talk all they want about specs and tflops, ram, blah blah blah. It doesn't mean anything when there isn't a single game out that proves Wii U is a significant step up from the ps360.
That said, I do believe the Wii U will turn out to be next gen (at least, i'd be surprised if it didn't, it's 7 years newer then current gen systems for goodness sake)

______________________________________

No guy, it doesnt work like that. You cant make up new definitions for alrready established words. A generationalways has been, and always will be a term dealing with the subject of temporality, and not anything else.

Generation, noun.

the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time: the postwar generation.


this recent explosion of complete silly pony nonsense STARTING AND ONLY STARTING AND NOT SEEN OR EVEN EXISTING ANYWHERE ELSE EVER UNTIL LAST GEN WITH THE WII is a marketing ploy pushed by publishers and the game media to brainwash the weak of mind, and its sadly incredibly effective.
 

[GAMER1984]

Some people are only going off what they see and I don't think they should be judged for that. The reality is there is games that so far have shown things that yes the Wii U is a more capable console than the PS360. But the average gamer are use to big jumps that are undeniable from what they could SEE. That isn't so evident right now with Wii U and that's just the truth. I believe once later this year we have multiple games on the market and in development that show a more noticeable jump then people will give it the respect the owners now want it to have.

[MorbidGod]

Then what are you saying? The Wii U obviously isn't up to ps4 power like yall trying to twist it to be

We are saying the power difference isn't going to be big enough to make a difference. Everyone besides MS has pretty much been confirmed to be using less powerful CPU and more powerful GPU, with the newer systems this year obviously having a slight edge over the Wii U.

This Gen is going to be a tight race. I can see Nintendo being third place, sure, but I don't see them being far behind the others. In the end, the Wii U might end up the PS3 of this generation in terms of sales. Which I don't consider being bad.

Power wise, definitely the Xbox 360 of this generation. Meaning, as stated before, being the least powerful and having older tech but still able to run everything the others can.

[Blade of Dyna]

Then why are developers flocking to the ps4 if the Wii U isnt that far behind in tech?

[Goodtwin]

Some people are only going off what they see and I don't think they should be judged for that. The reality is there is games that so far have shown things that yes the Wii U is a more capable console than the PS360. But the average gamer are use to big jumps that are undeniable from what they could SEE. That isn't so evident right now with Wii U and that's just the truth. I believe once later this year we have multiple games on the market and in development that show a more noticeable jump then people will give it the respect the owners now want it to have.

 

Exactly, the Wii U is a very small jump comapred to the N64 to Gamecube or Xbox to 360 jump.  Its obvious that the jump is small enough that the Wii U doesnt run top of the line 360/PS3 games perfectly right out of the gate.  Yes things should get better once developers really optimize around the Wii U architecutre, but its not like back in the day when the Dreamcast could run PS and N64 ports at launch with huge improvements and a better framerate.  Thats what people were expecting initially, and it didnt happen with the Wii U.  Even though the 360 and PS3 used PPC cpu's, they were long pipeline high clocked processors, drastically different from the short pipeline low clocked Wii U cpu.  The memory layout is drastically different as well.  Developers who are familiar with the Gamecube architecture will probably be quicker to wrap their heads around the Wii U architecture.  I kind of think that the Wii U will end up being the Gamecube to the PS2 (PS2 being the 360/PS3).  When games are really optimized for Wii U, it should have a Resident Evil 4 gamecube vs PS2 type of leap.    

[GAMER1984]

Exactly, the Wii U is a very small jump comapred to the N64 to Gamecube or Xbox to 360 jump. Its obvious that the jump is small enough that the Wii U doesnt run top of the line 360/PS3 games perfectly right out of the gate. Yes things should get better once developers really optimize around the Wii U architecutre, but its not like back in the day when the Dreamcast could run PS and N64 ports at launch with huge improvements and a better framerate. Thats what people were expecting initially, and it didnt happen with the Wii U. Even though the 360 and PS3 used PPC cpu's, they were long pipeline high clocked processors, drastically different from the short pipeline low clocked Wii U cpu. The memory layout is drastically different as well. Developers who are familiar with the Gamecube architecture will probably be quicker to wrap their heads around the Wii U architecture. I kind of think that the Wii U will end up being the Gamecube to the PS2 (PS2 being the 360/PS3). When games are really optimized for Wii U, it should have a Resident Evil 4 gamecube vs PS2 type of leap.

Well said... Dare I say it could even be ps2 to xbox. I've heard a friend of mine make that comparision based off some talks he had with developers. So only time will tell. But believe Nintendo has to bring graphical beast to E3 because both sont and microsoft are going to be showing how much better their new console are compared to ps360. If Wii U comes with graphics that just match the best of say ps3(like the newest god of war, the last of us) though those games look amazing it will give gamers and media no reason to think Wii U is anything other than a 7th gen system tech wise.

[MorbidGod]

So what defines "next" gen?

People like to play cute with the term and say it literally just means the next generation of any company's console. Since the Wii U is nintendo's next gen, it is indeed "next gen".

Play cute? It's not playing cute. It's what it is. I'm sorry If you disagree with the term, but the word next generation is always the nezt product of a certain company.

Case in point, the last generation of video cards was the AMD Radeon HD6xxx Series, with the newer generation being HD 7xxx. In some cases in the past, a "next Gen" product is not a significant step forward. Usually in the start of a new generation. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have newer tech.

In terms of hardware, the Wii U is a huge step forward from the Wii. Which was part of last generation, wasn't? Or was that, in your mind, the GCN generation? The Wii U not only has more graphical abilities, but it also has a newer controller.

Look at it this way. When Wind Waker came out people couldn't believe the graphics. But just because it wasn't what we expected, was it not the new Zelda? Or was it really the last Zelda, and Major Mask really was the "new Zelda"? That just doesn't make sense, does it?

Sorry, Wii U is next Gen. No matter how you put it.

[3Dude]

Blade of Dyna, on 15 Apr 2013 - 07:07, said:Then why are developers flocking to the ps4 if the Wii U isnt that far behind in tech?



For the same reason they dropped support for the gamecube like a bad habit despite the system being considerably more powerful than the ps2, and having the same install base as xbox.

[JaylisJayP]

X looks really nice, but its not PS4 level stuff.  The good thing about X is that it will be tailored around what the Wii U can do well.  To me, X looks like it takes a lot of influence from Anime, and that graphics style should hold up very well on the Wii U.  I am certainly excited to see more of this title, but people need to get past the Wii U vs PS4 debate.  PS4 is more powerful hands down, that doesnt mean it will have better games.  I can gaurantee that the Wii U will have more than enough great games to justify the purchase of the hardware. 

 

I own a Deluxe Wii U and I've stuck with it and I'm keeping it at this point, but I question when all those great games will be here.  2 years?  The console seriously may not survive that long.  People don't give a crap about promises anymore and nobody is buying this thing.  I know all the game that are "coming", but Rayman Legends was coming (still is at some point).  Games are either being canceled or being announced as "not coming" to Wii U it seems every week.  Like I said, I won't be ditching the Wii U at this point, but I can easily see myself just waiting until every game I want for it drops to $10 or $15 (or $25 for first party titles) and just spend my money and credit on PS4. 

[MorbidGod]

I own a Deluxe Wii U and I've stuck with it and I'm keeping it at this point, but I question when all those great games will be here. 2 years? The console seriously may not survive that long. People don't give a crap about promises anymore and nobody is buying this thing. I know all the game that are "coming", but Rayman Legends was coming (still is at some point). Games are either being canceled or being announced as "not coming" to Wii U it seems every week. Like I said, I won't be ditching the Wii U at this point, but I can easily see myself just waiting until every game I want for it drops to $10 or $15 (or $25 for first party titles) and just spend my money and credit on PS4.

That is a very valid point. More of a valid point then what most people on this post have said.

[Socalmuscle]

DexterousGecko, on 15 Apr 2013 - 06:15, said:So what defines "next" gen?
People like to play cute with the term and say it literally just means the next generation of any company's console. Since the Wii U is nintendo's next gen, it is indeed "next gen". If Sony came out with a retro console that had genesis graphics and gameplay, it could be argued that it is sony's "next gen" system, but it wouldn't be anywhere near "next gen" Next gen isn't just in comparison to what a company's console did before. Its a comparison to other current consoles on the market.
However, I believe most people think of next gen (at least in term of consoles, PC's will always be superior at least in terms of graphics) as a significant step up in comparison to current games. For example, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Battlefield 3 etc. Right now, the Wii U has not shown anything that is remotely superior to anything the current generation consoles can provide. I keep hearing rumours about wii u versions being the "definitive" versions, but where are these games? The Wii U is Nintendo's next gen console, yes. So far however, it has not proven that it is "next gen" in the broader definition of the word. People can talk all they want about specs and tflops, ram, blah blah blah. It doesn't mean anything when there isn't a single game out that proves Wii U is a significant step up from the ps360.
That said, I do believe the Wii U will turn out to be next gen (at least, i'd be surprised if it didn't, it's 7 years newer then current gen systems for goodness sake)
______________________________________
No guy, it doesnt work like that. You cant make up new definitions for alrready established words. A generationalways has been, and always will be a term dealing with the subject of temporality, and not anything else.
Generation, noun.
the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time: the postwar generation.
this recent explosion of complete silly pony nonsense STARTING AND ONLY STARTING AND NOT SEEN OR EVEN EXISTING ANYWHERE ELSE EVER UNTIL LAST GEN WITH THE WII is a marketing ploy pushed by publishers and the game media to brainwash the weak of mind, and its sadly incredibly effective.
 

Someone hasn't seen nfs:mw

Then why are developers flocking to the ps4 if the Wii U isnt that far behind in tech?

Because of the Sony marketing machine, the way Sony has been reaching out to developers, and the supposed ease of increasingly the market of their games (PC and console) with x86 heritage.

In addition, games are an art as well as a business. If Sony has convinced developers that ps4 is super powerful, then it makes sense that you'd want your work of art shown off in the best light possible.

Motivation is a factor. Games are made by people. These people need motivation to put their best foot forward. Regardless of its great capabilities, if the wii u is being (foolishly) laughed at, then your motivation to specialize in that system takes a hit.

Such is life.

I imagine that such attitudes will change when strong wii u software is revealed.

[Gaymer]

I love coming here and reading routerbad and 3dude's posts. Not only is it amusing when they put people in their place, but I also learn from their knowledge. Keep it up, guys!

[3Dude]

JaylisJayP, on 15 Apr 2013 - 13:56, said:I own a Deluxe Wii U and I've stuck with it and I'm keeping it at this point, but I question when all those great games will be here.  2 years?  The console seriously may not survive that long.  People don't give a crap about promises anymore and nobody is buying this thing.  I know all the game that are "coming", but Rayman Legends was coming (still is at some point).  Games are either being canceled or being announced as "not coming" to Wii U it seems every week.  Like I said, I won't be ditching the Wii U at this point, but I can easily see myself just waiting until every game I want for it drops to $10 or $15 (or $25 for first party titles) and just spend my money and credit on PS4. 


_________________________________

Its not just third party games. Nintendo themselves have shown nothing but an alpha version of 'X'.

Yet the 3ds is getting ANOTHER nintendo direct and an all day event.

Nintendo. The 3ds rocks, everybody already knows it, how about spending some of that buffet of life giving attention on your starving neglected wii u?

At least just SHOW us something to look forward too!
 

[Goodtwin]

I own a Deluxe Wii U and I've stuck with it and I'm keeping it at this point, but I question when all those great games will be here.  2 years?  The console seriously may not survive that long.  People don't give a crap about promises anymore and nobody is buying this thing.  I know all the game that are "coming", but Rayman Legends was coming (still is at some point).  Games are either being canceled or being announced as "not coming" to Wii U it seems every week.  Like I said, I won't be ditching the Wii U at this point, but I can easily see myself just waiting until every game I want for it drops to $10 or $15 (or $25 for first party titles) and just spend my money and credit on PS4. 

 

Nah, a lot of Nintendo's first party titles will release this year.  I am expecting either a Mario Kart or Smash to be ready for the end of the year, and probably a 3D mario game as well.  Then of course Zelda WW is confirmed to be released later this year, and Bayonetta will be ready as well.  This is the problem with Nintendo, they hold off on showing anything until e3.  Do you remember when Mario Galaxy was shown?  About four months before release.  Its crazy how close  to the chest Nintendo plays the game.  I dont blame people for being unenthused right now, but I have a feeling that will all change in two months at e3.  Anyone who owns a Wii U or is thinking about buying a Wii U owes it to themselves to pay close attention to what is shown at e3, it could be spectacular. 

[MorbidGod]

Nah, a lot of Nintendo's first party titles will release this year. I am expecting either a Mario Kart or Smash to be ready for the end of the year, and probably a 3D mario game as well. Then of course Zelda WW is confirmed to be released later this year, and Bayonetta will be ready as well. This is the problem with Nintendo, they hold off on showing anything until e3. Do you remember when Mario Galaxy was shown? About four months before release. Its crazy how close to the chest Nintendo plays the game. I dont blame people for being unenthused right now, but I have a feeling that will all change in two months at e3. Anyone who owns a Wii U or is thinking about buying a Wii U owes it to themselves to pay close attention to what is shown at e3, it could be spectacular.

I completely agree. Although SSB4 probably won't come out until next year, which I'm fine with as long as Retro shows their game and says its coming this year!

[DexterousGecko]

DexterousGecko, on 15 Apr 2013 - 06:15, said:So what defines "next" gen?
People like to play cute with the term and say it literally just means the next generation of any company's console. Since the Wii U is nintendo's next gen, it is indeed "next gen". If Sony came out with a retro console that had genesis graphics and gameplay, it could be argued that it is sony's "next gen" system, but it wouldn't be anywhere near "next gen" Next gen isn't just in comparison to what a company's console did before. Its a comparison to other current consoles on the market.
However, I believe most people think of next gen (at least in term of consoles, PC's will always be superior at least in terms of graphics) as a significant step up in comparison to current games. For example, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Battlefield 3 etc. Right now, the Wii U has not shown anything that is remotely superior to anything the current generation consoles can provide. I keep hearing rumours about wii u versions being the "definitive" versions, but where are these games? The Wii U is Nintendo's next gen console, yes. So far however, it has not proven that it is "next gen" in the broader definition of the word. People can talk all they want about specs and tflops, ram, blah blah blah. It doesn't mean anything when there isn't a single game out that proves Wii U is a significant step up from the ps360.
That said, I do believe the Wii U will turn out to be next gen (at least, i'd be surprised if it didn't, it's 7 years newer then current gen systems for goodness sake)

______________________________________

No guy, it doesnt work like that. You cant make up new definitions for alrready established words. A generationalways has been, and always will be a term dealing with the subject of temporality, and not anything else.

Generation, noun.

the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time: the postwar generation.


this recent explosion of complete silly pony nonsense STARTING AND ONLY STARTING AND NOT SEEN OR EVEN EXISTING ANYWHERE ELSE EVER UNTIL LAST GEN WITH THE WII is a marketing ploy pushed by publishers and the game media to brainwash the weak of mind, and its sadly incredibly effective.
 

If I'm so crazy about making new definitions for old words then why is there such a debate about the Wii U being next gen? If EVERYONE agreed with your definition of "next gen" then this wouldn't be an argument. You have to see that you're using the word to suit your purposes just as everyone else is using it to suit their purpose.

 

the Wii U is next generation Nintendo, but until it proves it's superior to the ps360, it will never be "next gen" in ps360 fans eyes. Heck, I'm willing to bet that even when and if it shows it's superior, most gamers won't call Nintendo next gen, but that's a different story.

[3Dude]

DexterousGecko, on 16 Apr 2013 - 01:37, said:If I'm so crazy about making new definitions for old words then why is there such a debate about the Wii U being next gen? If EVERYONE agreed with your definition of "next gen" then this wouldn't be an argument. You have to see that you're using the word to suit your purposes just as everyone else is using it to suit their purpose.
the Wii U is next generation Nintendo, but until it proves it's superior to the ps360, it will never be "next gen" in ps360 fans eyes. Heck, I'm willing to bet that even when and if it shows it's superior, most gamers won't call Nintendo next gen, but that's a different story.



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Because they are stupid and easily manipulated.

Theres no soft way to put it.

Some people will believe anything if it strokes their ego the right way.

Like the earth being flat.

Or a certain real life person covered in bandages was cg using the fox engine, when he was in fact very clearly an actual person.


The definition of the word generation is not up for debate, no matter how many examples of people being stupid you bring up.

The only way you could possibly have an argument is if you went into a dictionary and found a definition for the word 'generation' that doesnt involve temporal succession and instead revolves around strength or power.

Which you wont, even if you did try.

Edited by 3Dude, 16 April 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[DexterousGecko]

I wonder how many people there are in the world who believe that everyone BUT them is crazy?

 

Also, on a serious note, Linguistically, words have different meanings (whether or not they are official or written down) for different groups of people. In some parts of some countries (not naming names) some groups of people talk with what other people would consider "bad" grammar. Does this make their speech any less valid or meaningful? Of course not. The meaning of what they are saying can still be grasped by any rational human being who speaks the same basic language.

 

Everyone is still debating with me over the definition of the word, when you know full well that a lot of people have an expanded definition of the word. Would everyone be happy if people said, "Nintendo's next gen is the same power as Sony and Microsoft's last gen"? Because that is what a lot of people are saying, and I haven't seen proof to the contrary.

 

There, I won't say next gen anymore, I'll just say Nintendo's next gen.