160 replies to this topic

[Goodtwin]

To be honest, I dont really care that the PS4 is more powerful than the Wii U, it should be, its a year newer and more expensive.  Its like comparing the Chevy Comaro to the Corvette.  Of course the Corvette is faster, its 30-40% more expensive.  I dont think anything is expecting the PS4 to be less than $399, and even if the Wii U basic were still at $299, which I doubt, but that is still $100 worth of extra tech, not to mention the fact that the Wii U has $100 worth of tech in its controller when the PS4 will have about $15.  I will just be glad to get past the Wii U is weaker than the 360/PS3 arguement.   

[PixelKnot]

Haven't you heard? It's "hip" or "cool" to hate on Nintendo. It, like, proves your status in the gamer community, or something.

Pretty much this.

[MorbidGod]

To be honest, I dont really care that the PS4 is more powerful than the Wii U, it should be, its a year newer and more expensive. Its like comparing the Chevy Comaro to the Corvette. Of course the Corvette is faster, its 30-40% more expensive. I dont think anything is expecting the PS4 to be less than $399, and even if the Wii U basic were still at $299, which I doubt, but that is still $100 worth of extra tech, not to mention the fact that the Wii U has $100 worth of tech in its controller when the PS4 will have about $15. I will just be glad to get past the Wii U is weaker than the 360/PS3 arguement.

I wasnt talking about power. I am saying that the first games should, according to my theory, like just as good as a Wii U game that was built for the Wii U. Yes, the ps4 will be more powerful and at the end of this generation you'll see the difference between the two systems. But the Wii U won't be far behind and I suspect most won't be able to tell the difference.

[Blade of Dyna]

Metroid other M, Brawl, Mario Galaxy, Xenoblade all those game look as good as 360 games yet people still treated the Wii as underpowered even if Nintendo shows off a next gen engine for the Wii U at e3 p people would still say the Wii U is underpowered it's the sad truth about the douchness that infest the industry T_T 

[routerbad]

Metroid other M, Brawl, Mario Galaxy, Xenoblade all those game look as good as 360 games yet people still treated the Wii as underpowered even if Nintendo shows off a next gen engine for the Wii U at e3 p people would still say the Wii U is underpowered it's the sad truth about the douchness that infest the industry T_T 

Unfortunately there isn't any way to get away from people who will rip the system, all we can do is defend if we feel we can, but also just continue to enjoy and support the system and give good word of mouth to friends and family.

[DexterousGecko]

Unfortunately there isn't any way to get away from people who will rip the system, all we can do is defend if we feel we can, but also just continue to enjoy and support the system and give good word of mouth to friends and family.

 I agree, just enjoy the system for what it does for you. It's just a product, it's not like you need to defend Nintendo to all the people who don't like it. I think sometimes people get too excited about defending certain companies. Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, it's not like the companies have different motives. Let's be honest, they're all profit organizations ^^

[routerbad]

 I agree, just enjoy the system for what it does for you. It's just a product, it's not like you need to defend Nintendo to all the people who don't like it. I think sometimes people get too excited about defending certain companies. Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, it's not like the companies have different motives. Let's be honest, they're all profit organizations ^^

True, but they do have different principles when it comes to game design and entertainment, which is why the offerings are so divergent.  So I don't see an issue with defending a product you truly believe in.

[Goodtwin]

The haters ran their mouth dissing the Wii the entire generation, but that had very little influence on the general public.  All the BS spoken on the internet is just that, BS, and doesnt reflect the opinions of the masses.  Just because a handful of fanboys in any given gaming forum are so vocal about the Wii U being a disaster doesnt make it true.  No matter how well Nintendo is doing, they will always suck according to the sony/miscrosoft goons. 

[DexterousGecko]

True, but they do have different principles when it comes to game design and entertainment, which is why the offerings are so divergent.  So I don't see an issue with defending a product you truly believe in.

You know, I can respect that. I don't support certain companies because of their practices, so yah, I think it's important to defend a product you believe in.

[Socalmuscle]

Why are these assholes like pachter still calling the Wii U weak didn't that trailer for monolith soft's new game prove that the Wii U can match PS4 graphics?

Pachter, hired forum posters, etc.

It's nothing new.

Most recently, Samsung is being investigated for its own "guerrilla warfare tactics against Htc"

http://iphone.applei...gainst_htc.html

They are being investigated for hiring people to post negative things about their competition online.

But that never happens in the console world...

Edited by Socalmuscle, 17 April 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Desert Punk]

Isn't it incredibly childish to defend a console manufacturer? Who cares about these companies, we just buy and play their games. I never understand fanboy's who seem to think they should have loyalty to these companies. Why?

 

I own all three consoles, enjoy them all, love the games and write it as I see it. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are not my friends. They will try to screw as much money out of me as possible for their goods and services and I will try to get the best deal for myself.

 

Why can't we have a sensible discussion about wii u power and the technology in it based on the evidence and how it performs rather than have Nintendo warriors writing complete unicorn tongue with absolutely no basis in reality.

 

One of the most childish comments frequently posted is 'hater'.

 

Someday, somewhere a thread will be written where people just state their views in a sensible way referring to the evidence available without any follow up posts making insulting and sarcastic comments....

[MorbidGod]

Isn't it incredibly childish to defend a console manufacturer? Who cares about these companies, we just buy and play their games. I never understand fanboy's who seem to think they should have loyalty to these companies. Why?

I own all three consoles, enjoy them all, love the games and write it as I see it. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are not my friends. They will try to screw as much money out of me as possible for their goods and services and I will try to get the best deal for myself.

Why can't we have a sensible discussion about wii u power and the technology in it based on the evidence and how it performs rather than have Nintendo warriors writing complete unicorn tongue with absolutely no basis in reality.

One of the most childish comments frequently posted is 'hater'.

Someday, somewhere a thread will be written where people just state their views in a sensible way referring to the evidence available without any follow up posts making insulting and sarcastic comments....

I know those comments weren't necessarily pointed at me, however to answer your question.

One, I love to debate and in the case of the console wars I have my opinion. I love Nintendo and I'll see it that my kids love Nintendo too. Personally, as a parent, I want to make sure that Nintendo has games I can play with my kids and that these games don't suck. Nintendo does this best currently. I give Microsoft and Sony props for doing better (especially since MS released Kinect). However, Nintendo currently has the most choice for my family.

Second, I believe Nintendo has the better value. That may change with the 720 if they do what I want them to but that hasn't happened. Nintendo offers the games that I like.

Three, Nintendo supports it's stuff better and builds better consoles. We didn't hear a mass amount of people complaining the GCN, Wii or Wii U not working. Some trouble yes. Wii U had trouble with software updates killing systems. But nothing like the Red Ring of Death or the PS3 launch. They do this because they don't use partners unless they trust them.

Lastly, it's childish to call names. I agree. But isn't that kind of what you are doing here?

[Desert Punk]

I think Nintendo do build more robust consoles generally and I think as an average they are certainly more reliable. The main reliability issue with the wii was the optical drive. Early models struggled to read the 2nd layer on dual layer games and also the early model had a more complex mechanism due to loading gamecube discs. The wii that didn't feature gamecube compatibility had a better laser and a simpler mechanism. Even the early wii's are much more reliable than 360s and PS3s but then the wii is technically a very weak console which helps with reliability. Both 360 and PS3 operate at 3.2ghz, a huge speed that even the PS4 and Xbox 720 won't operate at.

 

How exactly did I 'call names' in that comment?

 

Let's be clear here I would love to see a debate where the wii u is discussed in a moderated thread where childish comments, insults, sarcasm were instantly deleted so the rest of the people could discuss the wiii u potential in a rational way and where people answered the points raised rather than avoiding the questions they don't like.

[routerbad]

I think Nintendo do build more robust consoles generally and I think as an average they are certainly more reliable. The main reliability issue with the wii was the optical drive. Early models struggled to read the 2nd layer on dual layer games and also the early model had a more complex mechanism due to loading gamecube discs. The wii that didn't feature gamecube compatibility had a better laser and a simpler mechanism. Even the early wii's are much more reliable than 360s and PS3s but then the wii is technically a very weak console which helps with reliability. Both 360 and PS3 operate at 3.2ghz, a huge speed that even the PS4 and Xbox 720 won't operate at.

 

How exactly did I 'call names' in that comment?

 

Let's be clear here I would love to see a debate where the wii u is discussed in a moderated thread where childish comments, insults, sarcasm were instantly deleted so the rest of the people could discuss the wiii u potential in a rational way and where people answered the points raised rather than avoiding the questions they don't like.

Making a console that is "weak" does not affect reliability one way or the other, and clock speeds had absolutely nothing to do with reliability.

Isn't it incredibly childish to defend a console manufacturer? Who cares about these companies, we just buy and play their games. I never understand fanboy's who seem to think they should have loyalty to these companies. Why?

 

I own all three consoles, enjoy them all, love the games and write it as I see it. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are not my friends. They will try to screw as much money out of me as possible for their goods and services and I will try to get the best deal for myself.

 

Why can't we have a sensible discussion about wii u power and the technology in it based on the evidence and how it performs rather than have Nintendo warriors writing complete unicorn tongue with absolutely no basis in reality.

 

One of the most childish comments frequently posted is 'hater'.

 

Someday, somewhere a thread will be written where people just state their views in a sensible way referring to the evidence available without any follow up posts making insulting and sarcastic comments....

I don't know who you are referring to as childish, or unicorn tongue here.  Do us a favor, and if you disagree with the content of a particular post, give some context to yours by quoting.

 

Having a discussion about the console based on evidence is exactly what has been happening, in fact that's exactly the point the OP was trying to make.

 

You can think there are no Nintendo haters all you want, but they are out there.  Not just for Nintendo, everyone has their haters, it happens, some people have nothing better to do or think about.

 

Funny how you ended your post, which in and of itself was insulting and divisive.

[Desert Punk]

Making a console that is "weak" does not affect reliability one way or the other, and clock speeds had absolutely nothing to do with reliability.

I don't know who you are referring to as childish, or unicorn tongue here.  Do us a favor, and if you disagree with the content of a particular post, give some context to yours by quoting.

 

Having a discussion about the console based on evidence is exactly what has been happening, in fact that's exactly the point the OP was trying to make.

 

You can think there are no Nintendo haters all you want, but they are out there.  Not just for Nintendo, everyone has their haters, it happens, some people have nothing better to do or think about.

 

Funny how you ended your post, which in and of itself was insulting and divisive.

 

Another comment mentioning those 'hater's again. Also what's with the comment about clock speeds and reliability, you surely don't believe that? Faster clock speeds produce more heat, more heat requires higher speed fans and you have a more damaging hot/cold cycle for the circuit board which creates more stress on the components. This is really basic stuff. In fact speed in mhz couldn't be more linked to reliability of consoles. That's why the newer consoles are going for parallel processing at lower mhz to ensure their consoles are more reliable and they don't repeat the high returns of their earlier designs.

[MorbidGod]

I think Nintendo do build more robust consoles generally and I think as an average they are certainly more reliable. The main reliability issue with the wii was the optical drive. Early models struggled to read the 2nd layer on dual layer games and also the early model had a more complex mechanism due to loading gamecube discs. The wii that didn't feature gamecube compatibility had a better laser and a simpler mechanism. Even the early wii's are much more reliable than 360s and PS3s but then the wii is technically a very weak console which helps with reliability. Both 360 and PS3 operate at 3.2ghz, a huge speed that even the PS4 and Xbox 720 won't operate at.

How exactly did I 'call names' in that comment?

Let's be clear here I would love to see a debate where the wii u is discussed in a moderated thread where childish comments, insults, sarcasm were instantly deleted so the rest of the people could discuss the wiii u potential in a rational way and where people answered the points raised rather than avoiding the questions they don't like.

How is not quoting someone specific and saying people are being childish not calling names? In fact, even if you quote a post that is offensive and then say that person is childish, not calling names?

I agree that my fellow board member routerbad called people names by mentioning "the haters". However, I don't necessarily think that is bad, nor do I think it is bad calling some people on this forum childish.

What I do think isn't right is you complaining about people calling people names, like routerbad, and then doing that yourself.

Another comment mentioning those 'hater's again. Also what's with the comment about clock speeds and reliability, you surely don't believe that? Faster clock speeds produce more heat, more heat requires higher speed fans and you have a more damaging hot/cold cycle for the circuit board which creates more stress on the components. This is really basic stuff. In fact speed in mhz couldn't be more linked to reliability of consoles. That's why the newer consoles are going for parallel processing at lower mhz to ensure their consoles are more reliable and they don't repeat the high returns of their earlier designs.

Although you are correct in your rhetoric, your thought process is wrong. They could have done what they are doing now with the last generation of consoles, but they choose not to. Or, they could have choosen to design enough air flow and a better cooling system then they originally did. But choose not to. These are design flaws. It's not like Nintendo couldn't make mistakes. They had a leg up, sure.

But look at the Wii U. Even at your own admission, the Wii U is at least ad powerful as the other guys. Using a lower clock processor. Having less hardware problems. The software issues aren't the same as hardware in my book because those are fixable, and it is sad it's taken this long to fix it.

So, at redesigning a console (GCN TO Wii) or designing a newer next Gen console (Wii U), Nintendo has proven they are better than the others.

And yes, I realize you agree with me at the basic principle. But I did say I like to debate .

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

Nobody is ever going to win the generation argument, there is no "this is last gen, this is next gen", it doesn't exist.

 

Fact is, the Wii U, PS4 and likely Xbox Next are all based on the same GPU architecture so can effectively do the same things but to differing degrees.

 

That means Wii U games CAN look a lot like PS4 games, but will be running in a lower resolution, less polys, less post processing, which may or may not be obvious to the end user.

 

More importantly though, good games written exclusively for Wii U will look and play good, good games written exclusive for PS4 will look even better but not necessarily play any better - a good game is a good game, period.  So it really depends how much you value eye candy (I do personally) and if its the kind of game where the graphics actually make a difference (racing games often do as a greater drawing distance gives you more time to plan your move).

 

What we CAN say for certain though is that Wii U is a decent upgrade above PS360.  Even in textures alone games look a LOT more polished, but that isn't all that is improved by a long shot.  With clever art direction its going to have games looking far better looking than PS360. 

 

That said unless I have my rose tinted glasses on I recall Kameo on 360, a launch game by Rare, as still one of the better looking games today because its art style is so different to most games on that system.  Of course, that doesn't mean it plays as good as later games, I wouldn't want to make a decision either way on that.

So I'm predicting the fact that all these  consoles will practically be playing the same games at different settings that the wii u will be the best selling? I say this because What's the point in buying the ps4 or xbox if you can get all the same games and more on your wii u, unless you are the minority that enjoys halo or god of war over zelda . 

Also, the boost from Nintendo to get almost all types of games on the e shop (including cheap mobile games) Will give nintendo the edge this gen. I don't see many developers working with 7 gigs of ram for the consoles because there is currently no reason to and there won't be in the future.

[routerbad]

Another comment mentioning those 'hater's again. Also what's with the comment about clock speeds and reliability, you surely don't believe that? Faster clock speeds produce more heat, more heat requires higher speed fans and you have a more damaging hot/cold cycle for the circuit board which creates more stress on the components. This is really basic stuff. In fact speed in mhz couldn't be more linked to reliability of consoles. That's why the newer consoles are going for parallel processing at lower mhz to ensure their consoles are more reliable and they don't repeat the high returns of their earlier designs.

Higher speed processors do produce more heat, but correlation does not imply causation with regard to failures.  There were a number of factors that affected reliability in the 360, and with the same CPU on later models they increased reliability by a large margin.  Implying it was simply due to clock speeds is oversimplifying, the core itself was always hot, it was an issue with many of the 74XX PPC variants at the time.

 

At any rate this is an ancillary point, Nintendo consoles aren't more reliable because they have lower clock speeds, they are more reliable because they've always had better industrial design with excellent airflow to keep systems from overheating.  My parents still have an N64 that is never turned off, they are playing a 10 year old game of perfect dark.

 

Also, yes, I mentioned the "haters" because they exist.

Edited by routerbad, 21 April 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[3Dude]

Desert punk:

Comes into thread, makes wild unsubstantiated claims backed by sources proven wrong several times over and sketchy info actially taken back by the source that spread it.

Is proven wrong on all accounts and is challenged by several points.

Ignores all points, creates strawmen to fight, calls names.

Is called out, debunked again, asked about ignored points.

Ignores points, creates new strawman, calls names.

Countered again, given more contradicting points.

Ignores all points and creates argument around intangible unquantifiable adjectives. Calls names.

Begins to complain about people, but describes his own actions.

Number of arguments engaged: 0.

[MorbidGod]

Desert punk:

Comes into thread, makes wild unsubstantiated claims backed by sources proven wrong several times over and sketchy info actially taken back by the source that spread it.

Is proven wrong on all accounts and is challenged by several points.

Ignores all points, creates strawmen to fight, calls names.

Is called out, debunked again, asked about ignored points.

Ignores points, creates new strawman, calls names.

Countered again, given more contradicting points.

Ignores all points and creates argument around intangible unquantifiable adjectives. Calls names.

Begins to complain about people, but describes his own actions.

Number of arguments engaged: 0.

I would like to back this thread up. I have notice Desert Punk ignoring points made by myself and others, then mentioning something else. However he isn't the only poster doing that.