55 replies to this topic

[MorbidGod]

The difference is that Nintendo relies too much on Mario to gain respect for hardcore gamers. Ever notice how a game like Zelda or Fire Emblem come out, it's relished and praised by various sources over months on end? It's because Nintendo released something that isn't the same IP.

At least Sony and Microsoft use the potential of different IPs (Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Portal, Half-Life, etc.) to release generic installments to keep their fans happy. If Nintendo used this model, a lot of those idiotic commentors would most likely decrease by half.

I'm really confused. There is a nee Mario game like every two years (for one console). We might be lucky and get a 3D Mario this year, which means one every year, but if we do there won't be a Mario next year for Wii U.

How is that worse then having a CoD every year? (and, to be fair, MS or Sony isn't responsible for that one) but I don't get what you are trying to say.

[routerbad]

I'm really confused. There is a nee Mario game like every two years (for one console). We might be lucky and get a 3D Mario this year, which means one every year, but if we do there won't be a Mario next year for Wii U.

How is that worse then having a CoD every year? (and, to be fair, MS or Sony isn't responsible for that one) but I don't get what you are trying to say.

I was confused as well, it was as if he was making a case for Nintendo to produce releases more often. Nintendo do utilize the full potential of their IPs, they don't do it often but when they do its extremely polished and well done and universally loved

[AegisReflector]

How is that worse then having a CoD every year? (and, to be fair, MS or Sony isn't responsible for that one) but I don't get what you are trying to say.

 

Because Mario is essentially Nintendo's answer to CoD, except it's a much bigger kick in the balls in the fact that more developing time is handled with the installments, and yet the games are still really repetitive and have a lack of innovation.

 

NSMB keeps sampling crap from other eras of Mario games with no creative ideas put forth into it. I know it's that whole philosophy of "If it's not broken, don't fix it", but honestly, every game in the NSMB is eerily similar to the last. (Again, the so-called "CoD Syndrome")

 

Not to mention SMG2 was basically an expansion pack to SMG, just with the addition of Yoshi and new items.

 

I'm not going to be idiotic and say that "Ocarina of Time is the same as Wind Waker" or anything, but when it comes to the recent Mario games, it's exactly the kind of activity that CoD shares.

Edited by AegisReflector, 01 May 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[MorbidGod]

Because Mario is essentially Nintendo's answer to CoD, except it's a much bigger kick in the balls in the fact that more developing time is handled with the installments, and yet the games are still really repetitive and have a lack of innovation.

NSMB keeps sampling crap from other eras of Mario games with no creative ideas put forth into it. I know it's that whole philosophy of "If it's not broken, don't fix it", but honestly, every game in the NSMB is eerily similar to the last.

Not to mention SMG2 was basically an expansion pack to SMG, just with the addition of Yoshi and new items.

I'm not a fan of Mario, for what you just mentioned (Although Galaxy was different), however how is Mario Nintendo's answer to CoD? Mario games isn't what Nintendo considers to be hardcore. Zelda and Metroid are more of an answer to CoD, but I still wouldn't call them that. Mainly because Mario, Zelda and Metroid have all been around longer than CoD.

So I now understand what your trying to say. And I at least agree that Mario games are usually similar in nature. And I don't give Nintendo crap for it, because every developer does that at some point.

But I disagree that Nintendo gives Mario as a response to CoD. That implies that originally Activision used CoD as a response to Mario. Both are just crazy because they target different ppl. Mario targets Nintendo's hardcore fan base, because most Nintendo fans like that game. CoD targets ppl who like shooters and war games. Those target audiences aren't the same. At all.

[AegisReflector]

Essentially. Meaning I was using that as an extragerration but still a fitting point to my overall statement.

[DexterousGecko]

>"Too many Zelda games"
>Series hasn't even released 20 main games over the course of 25 years

Did you just hear what you said. 20 games... THATS A LOT

 

oh and i guess i'm 12, i usually buy the newest COD to play with my "bros"

[MorbidGod]

Essentially. Meaning I was using that as an extragerration but still a fitting point to my overall statement.

Maybe it would be better saying they are similar in the fact that each installment is a clone. But Mario has some unique games, case in point Mario Galaxy. Although MG2 wasn't much different from the first.

[AegisReflector]

Maybe it would be better saying they are similar in the fact that each installment is a clone. But Mario has some unique games, case in point Mario Galaxy. Although MG2 wasn't much different from the first.

 

 

The Mario 3D games up to SMG2 were unique, yes, but when you have the NSMB series as a perfect example of this sort of business model, then you kind of have to roll with it lol.

[Kokirii]

But Im not sure I want Nintendo making games that those people would consider "Mature", because Nintendo has a certain code of ethics about them that I find quite classy, A game doesnt have to be filled with gore and blood and tacos and language to be "Mature". 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more!  I am glad that Nintendo is pushing back against the pressure to be consumed by a gaming culture like Sony and Microsoft's (more the latter than the former, but still).    

[TheUltimateWaddleDee]

Did you just hear what you said. 20 games... THATS A LOT

oh and i guess i'm 12, i usually buy the newest COD to play with my "bros"

As of right now there were 16 Zelda games in 25 years. That's .63 games a year. Compare that to, say God of War for example, which has 6 games in 8 years, which is .75 games per year. (This is excluding remakes, rereleases, and other appearances.

[YoshiGamer9]

>"Too many Zelda games"
>Series hasn't even released 20 main games over the course of 25 years

 

 

........

 

 

>.< I am still kinda sick of it... it took them four tries to make a good 3D zelda and they only succeeded twice...

[routerbad]

Because Mario is essentially Nintendo's answer to CoD, except it's a much bigger kick in the balls in the fact that more developing time is handled with the installments, and yet the games are still really repetitive and have a lack of innovation.

 

NSMB keeps sampling crap from other eras of Mario games with no creative ideas put forth into it. I know it's that whole philosophy of "If it's not broken, don't fix it", but honestly, every game in the NSMB is eerily similar to the last. (Again, the so-called "CoD Syndrome")

 

Not to mention SMG2 was basically an expansion pack to SMG, just with the addition of Yoshi and new items.

 

I'm not going to be idiotic and say that "Ocarina of Time is the same as Wind Waker" or anything, but when it comes to the recent Mario games, it's exactly the kind of activity that CoD shares.

SMG2 was similar in style but different than SMG.  And Mario is not an answer to COD.  The NSMB games are just the current 2D Mario games, there's only 2 of them.  There were only 3 "Super Mario Bros" games before that, and on NES, SNES.  

 

You might as well have said that OoT is the same as Skyward Sword, using a particular formula does not mean two games are the same.  NSMBU is the same formula as the OG Super Mario Bros games and New Super Mario Bros games, but there has been a lot added in the form of powerups, mechanics, and controls.

 

For a platformer to be fresh it needs new and unique platforming levels, new ways to deal with enemies, and new moves that you can take advantage of.  Each Mario game does exactly this.

 

For a first person shooter to be fresh it needs new weapons, improved shooting mechanic, new tools or powerups, etc.  Have you ever wondered why Halo felt like the Super Mario of first person shooters by adding in new powerups and weapons but keeping the levels largely the same in style, and in some cases, layout?  You want to add things that are interesting, but the last thing any company wants to do is alienate their fans and prevent them from buying their next game by stripping out ideas and mechanics that make sense already.

[Gaymer]

>"Too many Zelda games"
>Series hasn't even released 20 main games over the course of 25 years

Not to mention that in their fandom, they listed Zelda and Mario. Logic out the window, huh?

[routerbad]

 

As of right now there were 16 Zelda games in 25 years. That's .63 games a year. Compare that to, say God of War for example, which has 6 games in 8 years, which is .75 games per year. (This is excluding remakes, rereleases, and other appearances.

Of those 16, only 8 are home console games.

........

 

 

>.< I am still kinda sick of it... it took them four tries to make a good 3D zelda and they only succeeded twice...

Huh?  We may disagree on which is the best, but they are all amazing games.

Edited by routerbad, 01 May 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[AegisReflector]

Okay, I guess I'll re-word what I said. I'm not stating that Mario was made because of CoD's success (), I'm saying they share similar business/consumer models and have lack of any noticeable gameplay changes. Now, with that out of the way...

SMG2 was similar in style but different than SMG.  And Mario is not an answer to COD.  The NSMB games are just the current 2D Mario games, there's only 2 of them.  There were only 3 "Super Mario Bros" games before that, and on NES, SNES.  

 

You might as well have said that OoT is the same as Skyward Sword, using a particular formula does not mean two games are the same.  NSMBU is the same formula as the OG Super Mario Bros games and New Super Mario Bros games, but there has been a lot added in the form of powerups, mechanics, and controls.

 

For a platformer to be fresh it needs new and unique platforming levels, new ways to deal with enemies, and new moves that you can take advantage of.  Each Mario game does exactly this.

 

For a first person shooter to be fresh it needs new weapons, improved shooting mechanic, new tools or powerups, etc.  Have you ever wondered why Halo felt like the Super Mario of first person shooters by adding in new powerups and weapons but keeping the levels largely the same in style, and in some cases, layout?  You want to add things that are interesting, but the last thing any company wants to do is alienate their fans and prevent them from buying their next game by stripping out ideas and mechanics that make sense already.

 

-No, there are actually 4 installments for the NSMB franchise (DS, Wii, 3DS, WiiU). And technically, the old school Mario games consisted of 4 SMB games since Super Mario World over in Japan is known as Super Mario Bros. 4.

 

-The NSMB franchise is way different than that of the original games. Not only does Mario have his moveset from SM64, but the challenges have dwindled down, the level design is roughly the same art direction, style, and layout. At least with SMB2USA and SMB3, there were vast changes to the Mario franchise that pleased people, such as the addition of maps, bonus levels, ways to easily skip levels, secrets such as the white blocks, etc. and SMW introduced Yoshi, the Ghost House mazes, first instances of coin collecting, etc. NSMB from its launch has kept the same moveset with different items and very little changes in the atmosphere of the games and level design/layout.

 

And you're trying to say that OoT and Skyward Sword have a particular formula? I would play them again. I find them to be ENTIRELY different.

 

-Again, see my statements on Mario having the same movesets, barely unique item changes, and the fact that Mario doesn't shoot enemies with a rocket launcher or slices them up with a sword to kill enemies lol.

 

-I agree with that to an extent. Look at some franchises from Banjo-Kazooie. While Nuts & Bolts wasn't that great, Banjo-Tooie changed the gameplay from the first game DRASTICALLY and the sequel was a huge success.

[YoshiGamer9]

Not to mention that in their fandom, they listed Zelda and Mario. Logic out the window, huh?

 

I still like them, but I'm sick of them... >.< I want something new!

 

Of those 16, only 8 are home console games.

Huh?  We may disagree on which is the best, but they are all amazing games.

 

 

Only SS and OOT were the good 3D zeldas IMO

SMG2 was similar in style but different than SMG.  And Mario is not an answer to COD.  The NSMB games are just the current 2D Mario games, there's only 2 of them.  There were only 3 "Super Mario Bros" games before that, and on NES, SNES.  

 

You might as well have said that OoT is the same as Skyward Sword, using a particular formula does not mean two games are the same.  NSMBU is the same formula as the OG Super Mario Bros games and New Super Mario Bros games, but there has been a lot added in the form of powerups, mechanics, and controls.

 

For a platformer to be fresh it needs new and unique platforming levels, new ways to deal with enemies, and new moves that you can take advantage of.  Each Mario game does exactly this.

 

For a first person shooter to be fresh it needs new weapons, improved shooting mechanic, new tools or powerups, etc.  Have you ever wondered why Halo felt like the Super Mario of first person shooters by adding in new powerups and weapons but keeping the levels largely the same in style, and in some cases, layout?  You want to add things that are interesting, but the last thing any company wants to do is alienate their fans and prevent them from buying their next game by stripping out ideas and mechanics that make sense already.

 

 

If you want a good first person shooter play TF2.

 

 

Super mario galaxy 2 was the best mario

 

I didn't really like the hand held NSMB games....

 

And NSMBU didn't feel like they were trying as hard as they did with the Wii one which is my favourite of the four.

[routerbad]

Okay, I guess I'll re-word what I said. I'm not stating that Mario was made because of CoD's success ( ), I'm saying they share similar business/consumer models and have lack of any noticeable gameplay changes. Now, with that out of the way...

 

-No, there are actually 4 installments for the NSMB franchise (DS, Wii, 3DS, WiiU). And technically, the old school Mario games consisted of 4 SMB games since Super Mario World over in Japan is known as Super Mario Bros. 4.

 

-The NSMB franchise is way different than that of the original games. Not only does Mario have his moveset from SM64, but the challenges have dwindled down, the level design is roughly the same art direction, style, and layout. At least with SMB2USA and SMB3, there were vast changes to the Mario franchise that pleased people, such as the addition of maps, bonus levels, ways to easily skip levels, secrets such as the white blocks, etc. and SMW introduced Yoshi, the Ghost House mazes, first instances of coin collecting, etc. NSMB from its launch has kept the same moveset with different items and very little changes in the atmosphere of the games and level design/layout.

 

And you're trying to say that OoT and Skyward Sword have a particular formula? I would play them again. I find them to be ENTIRELY different.

 

-Again, see my statements on Mario having the same movesets, barely unique item changes, and the fact that Mario doesn't shoot enemies with a rocket launcher or slices them up with a sword to kill enemies lol.

 

-I agree with that to an extent. Look at some franchises from Banjo-Kazooie. While Nuts & Bolts wasn't that great, Banjo-Tooie changed the gameplay from the first game DRASTICALLY and the sequel was a huge success.

I was just counting the home console versions of NSMB, but yeah.  The level design is pretty much that of SMB3 but with additional challenges and platform types, and powerups, movesets, etc.

 

OoT and Skyward sword have the same very basic formula, but as with all of the Zelda games, they are completely different.  Some of them don't even take place in what we know of as Hyrule.

 

Banjo tooie still had the same formula at the heart of it, but it played very differently.  Still a collection fest.

I still like them, but I'm sick of them... >.< I want something new!

 

 

 

Only SS and OOT were the good 3D zeldas IMO

 

 

If you want a good first person shooter play TF2.

 

 

Super mario galaxy 2 was the best mario

 

I didn't really like the hand held NSMB games....

 

And NSMBU didn't feel like they were trying as hard as they did with the Wii one which is my favourite of the four.

I liked all of the 3D ones, but to be honest TP is my favorite.

[YoshiGamer9]

I was just counting the home console versions of NSMB, but yeah.  The level design is pretty much that of SMB3 but with additional challenges and platform types, and powerups, movesets, etc.

 

OoT and Skyward sword have the same very basic formula, but as with all of the Zelda games, they are completely different.  Some of them don't even take place in what we know of as Hyrule.

 

Banjo tooie still had the same formula at the heart of it, but it played very differently.  Still a collection fest.

I liked all of the 3D ones, but to be honest TP is my favorite.

 

 

I really disliked that one.... >.< eh.

[routerbad]

I really disliked that one.... >.< eh.

To each his own, its my favorite 3D Zelda to date.  Majora's Mask comes close.

[umegames]

Nintendo = Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Pikmin, Star Fox, F-Zero, Wario Ware, Smash Bros.
[Notice the variety]
Sony and Microsoft = Halo, Uncharted, Gears of War, Killzone, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Saints Row
[Notice how they are rehashed and have no variety]

thank you