57 replies to this topic

[Azure-Edge]

You act as if 70 new Pokemon is no new Pokemon. There are still plenty of Pokemon to discover. I haven't spoiled myself beyond the starters' final stages and a couple of others, so I have plenty to see.

 

Waaahhh Waaaahhh Waaahhhh. I can't enjoy a Pokemon game unless there are at least 100 new pokemon. 70 new pokemon don't count, old pokemon don't count at all, and megaforms are HORRIBLE!!!! 

 

 

...Seriously people, grow up. Whether or not any of the whiners want to admit it, this was going to happen eventually. You can't constantly add 100+ new pokemon every single generation and keep the quality control up. The only thing I ever heard about Black and White was how bad most of the designs of the pokemon were. Now they've gone fewer number, but they've all obviously had more TLC  put in to each pokemon. Are you going to use EVERY pokemon in this game? Probably not. Most people only use a small handful of each gen's pokemon anyways. This game brings the total up to 700 Pokemon!

 

 

I swear gamers are entitled as hell these days. I don't remember anyone complaining that the second gen only had 100 new pokemon instead of 150. 

[Kokirii]

This will be my first Pokemon so I'm not too troubled by it but I share the frustration of people who are veterans with the series

[3Dude]

Eh, when you have to do 200x the work per pokemon, not to mention the world itself, this is bound to happen.

Modeling, and texturing a 3d pokemon is a lot more time consuming than using a single still picture.

And then there is rigging and animating each move, instead of simply jiggling the portrait, and actually making moves and effects, instead of reusing the same 10 generic battle effects over and over again.

And then there is modeling and texturing the world, and designing the cities as visually interesting set peices, instead of reusing the same 30 tiles over and over again (this also applies to the latest '3d games, which used the same desig philosophy).

Gains definately outweigh the 'losses' to me.

[Azure-Edge]

This will be my first Pokemon so I'm not too troubled by it but I share the frustration of people who are veterans with the series

 

Trust me, it's not 'veterans' that are frustrated by the number count. It's people who have some sort of strange fascination with numbers. Like I said before, the B/W gen added in tons of pokemon, and yet that didn't necessarily make it a better game. People still complained about the pokemon. 

 

You won't know this since this will be your first pokemon gen, but you will begin to grow attached to certain pokemon the more you play these games. You'll find some that really click with you for some reason, and you'll just come to love them. They will be your favorites, so when a new gen comes along you'll have a pull between trying the new pokemon and sticking with what you may consider 'your' pokemon. Plus there are still all the other pokemon you may not have ever tried to use before from previous gens. 

 

I know I'm going to try to transfer over my main team from Soul Silver on account that I just love those little guys. I trained them, I raised them, and I spent a lot of time working to make them as awesome as they are today. Check it out:

 

To me these guys aren't just sprites. They're my team, my pokemon. I love these little guys. It may sound silly, but once you start building your team you'll grow attached to them.

[Kokirii]

Trust me, it's not 'veterans' that are frustrated by the number count. It's people who have some sort of strange fascination with numbers. Like I said before, the B/W gen added in tons of pokemon, and yet that didn't necessarily make it a better game. People still complained about the pokemon. 

 

You won't know this since this will be your first pokemon gen, but you will begin to grow attached to certain pokemon the more you play these games. You'll find some that really click with you for some reason, and you'll just come to love them. They will be your favorites, so when a new gen comes along you'll have a pull between trying the new pokemon and sticking with what you may consider 'your' pokemon. Plus there are still all the other pokemon you may not have ever tried to use before from previous gens. 

 

I know I'm going to try to transfer over my main team from Soul Silver on account that I just love those little guys. I trained them, I raised them, and I spent a lot of time working to make them as awesome as they are today. Check it out:

 

To me these guys aren't just sprites. They're my team, my pokemon. I love these little guys. It may sound silly, but once you start building your team you'll grow attached to them.

 

Very cool!  I love having that kind of attachment to a game series (mine is Zelda) and I hope I get that into Pokemon.  

[Azure-Edge]

Very cool!  I love having that kind of attachment to a game series (mine is Zelda) and I hope I get that into Pokemon.  

 

You probably will, especially with your very first starter. That's gonna be the pokemon you first start to learn and dive in to the world with. It's like your partner when you get in to the game. Your starter is also usually one of your strongest pokemon throughout a good chunk of the game and will likely always be in your party.

[Jeremygts]

I played the original Red and Blue when they first came out. I stopped getting into Pokemon as I got older. My kids are 7 and 11 and love Pokemon so Im back into it. The first thing that I said was "who the hell are all these Pokemon!" So now im playing catch up with the new Pokemon. I cant wait to dive into X and Y!

[JoshZebra]

Waaahhh Waaaahhh Waaahhhh. I can't enjoy a Pokemon game unless there are at least 100 new pokemon. 70 new pokemon don't count, old pokemon don't count at all, and megaforms are HORRIBLE!!!! 

 

 

...Seriously people, grow up. Whether or not any of the whiners want to admit it, this was going to happen eventually. You can't constantly add 100+ new pokemon every single generation and keep the quality control up. The only thing I ever heard about Black and White was how bad most of the designs of the pokemon were. Now they've gone fewer number, but they've all obviously had more TLC  put in to each pokemon. Are you going to use EVERY pokemon in this game? Probably not. Most people only use a small handful of each gen's pokemon anyways. This game brings the total up to 700 Pokemon!

 

 

I swear gamers are entitled as hell these days. I don't remember anyone complaining that the second gen only had 100 new pokemon instead of 150. 

I never said that, I'd rather they ditched the old ones and started fresh in this game.  I'm buying a new game, not Pokemon Red.  I know let's reycle old Pokemon, give em megaforms and call it day! The hundreds and thousands of pounds into our gaming research couldn't help us think up some new Pokemon!

 

I'm not complaining, I was expecting a new game, that is all.  Don't wah wah wah me like I'm moaning.

[3Dude]

I never said that, I'd rather they ditched the old ones and started fresh in this game.  I'm buying a new game, not Pokemon Red.  I know let's reycle old Pokemon, give em megaforms and call it day! The hundreds and thousands of pounds into our gaming research couldn't help us think up some new Pokemon!
 
I'm not complaining, I was expecting a new game, that is all.  Don't wah wah wah me like I'm moaning.

so this ois how they got away with releasing the same game over and over and over again.

Their fans dont really want a new game, they just want more still pictures with silly names attached to them.

[JoshZebra]

so this ois how they got away with releasing the same game over and over and over again.

Their fans dont really want a new game, they just want more still pictures with silly names attached to them.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't buy the remakes, I only bought the new region releases.  I'll probably buy X or Y but it is going to be bitterly disappointing playing as old Pokemon again.

[lucario23]

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't buy the remakes, I only bought the new region releases.  I'll probably buy X or Y but it is going to be bitterly disappointing playing as old Pokemon again.

So a game with a new 3D engine, a new World, 70 new pokemon, and bringing new forms to old pokemon to keep them fresh and exciting to long term fans, along with new social features and the best online infrastructure of all 3DS games isn't a completely new game Pokemon game to you? Keep in mind using these old pokemon will still be completely different as there are new mechanics and new types thrown into the mix.

[JoshZebra]

So a game with a new 3D engine, a new World, 70 new pokemon, and bringing new forms to old pokemon to keep them fresh and exciting to long term fans, along with new social features and the best online infrastructure of all 3DS games isn't a completely new game Pokemon game to you? Keep in mind using these old pokemon will still be completely different as there are new mechanics and new types thrown into the mix.

So cos the game is finally loading 3D graphics for the fifth or sixth time, a new region, for the sixth or seventh time, reworking old Pokemon for the third time, adding basic online features for the about time, it is new? The Nintendo seal of quality means nothing to some people.

[3Dude]

So cos the game is finally loading 3D graphics for the fifth or sixth time, a new region, for the sixth or seventh time, reworking old Pokemon for the third time, adding basic online features for the about time, it is new? The Nintendo seal of quality means nothing to some people.

Pretty sure pretty much anyone can tell which one of these is different, and which is still the same desptie being '3d'.






And absolutely which one requires more work and resources. I hate poor arguments. I cant stand logical fallacies.

What you are doing is blatant false equivilence, and its a very weak informal argument. And you know it.

[TriplePower]

Stop talking about weak and strong arguments, this is not an essay we're writing here. The point is that if someone really likes Pokemon, there is really nothing that could stop them buying the game. There couldn't be that many improvements at a time, that's not how the game industry normally works. Just look at other franchises like FIFA. Both games have become cows a.k.a. milking machines and if you don't want to buy any of them, that's perfectly fine.

Edited by TriplePower, 08 October 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[JoshZebra]

---

I meant Colosseum actually.  The 3D Pokemon game.  And how is this a weak argument? It is hardly an argument as I'm giving my opinion and whether you agree with it or not doesn't make it weak.  If you are perfectly fine with a half baked game just because it is on a new system and it now has '3D' graphics then you can be fine with that.  I however don't want to fork over for a half baked game.  I know what I'm talking about, I've worked with this stuff before.  I don't buy into the 'new engine' either.  You can see it is still the same grid lock game with the same angles, just a different graphics engine which games always enhance.  It is all nothing new.  70 is a lousy numbers and mega evs are just a way to milk old Pokemon.  Stop being a fanboy, every Pokemon game is just a remake, just this falls short of a good one.

Edited by JoshZebra, 09 October 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[3Dude]

I meant Colosseum actually.  The 3D Pokemon game.  And how is this a weak argument? It is hardly an argument as I'm giving my opinion and whether you agree with it or not doesn't make it weak.  If you are perfectly fine with a half baked game just because it is on a new system and it now has '3D' graphics then you can be fine with that.  I however don't want to fork over for a half baked game.  I know what I'm talking about, I've worked with this stuff before.  I don't buy into the 'new engine' either.  You can see it is still the same grid lock game with the same angles, just a different graphics engine which games always enhance.  It is all nothing new.  70 is a lousy numbers and mega evs are just a way to milk old Pokemon.  Stop being a fanboy, every Pokemon game is just a remake, just this falls short of a good one.

lmfao. 3dude Just got called a pokemon fanboy folks, everybody mark their calenders. An ad hominum for the record books.

I never played colloseum, In fact, I havent played through a pokemon in over 15 years, however, wiki shows that games about as much of a pokemon game as mario kart is a mario game.

More false equivilence. Your posts are rapidly becoming kettle logic. The personell, time, and money it takes to make156 sprite drawings =/ the personell, time, and money it takes to make 70 textured and animated character models.

Your claims about the grid lock are false. The player no longer moves locked according to tiles/texture tiles, but is fully in control. The only observation you have made, is that the same background artist still have the same art style.

[JoshZebra]

lmfao. 3dude Just got called a pokemon fanboy folks, everybody mark their calenders. An ad hominum for the record books.

I never played colloseum, In fact, I havent played through a pokemon in over 15 years, however, wiki shows that games about as much of a pokemon game as mario kart is a mario game.

More false equivilence. Your posts are rapidly becoming kettle logic. The personell, time, and money it takes to make156 sprite drawings =/ the personell, time, and money it takes to make 70 textured and animated character models.

Your claims about the grid lock are false. The player no longer moves locked according to tiles/texture tiles, but is fully in control. The only observation you have made, is that the same background artist still have the same art style.

 

Oh brilliant then! So that proves my point, this game is a reworked Colosseum! Right good good.  I love the term 'kettle logic' by the way, I'll write that down! So just so we're clear you're trying to justify that a game should be half baked because it is on new hardware, has tons of new 'old' features and because it reworks old stuff? May I ask why you're attacking me by the way with kettle logic and sarcastic stuff like 'aye look guys I'm a fanboy?!?11'.  It seems you're taking this to argument and away from debate or in my case, giving an opinion on a forum which would be ridiculous I know.

[3Dude]

Oh brilliant then! So that proves my point, this game is a reworked Colosseum! Right good good.  I love the term 'kettle logic' by the way, I'll write that down! So just so we're clear you're trying to justify that a game should be half baked because it is on new hardware, has tons of new 'old' features and because it reworks old stuff? May I ask why you're attacking me by the way with kettle logic and sarcastic stuff like 'aye look guys I'm a fanboy?!?11'.  It seems you're taking this to argument and away from debate or in my case, giving an opinion on a forum which would be ridiculous I know.

Well, for starters, Im this boards resident #1 enemy of pokemon, reviled and hated by all and any pokemon fans.

You shouldnt 'write down' kettle logic, you should look it up, othetwise, when you inevitably use the term incorrectly, youll see me again.

I dont attack people, I deconstruct their bad logic and fallacious arguments.

You've stopped giving opinions and began a 'fact' based comparison argument a considerable time ago. Unfortunately your logic is faulty and doesnt verify your conclusions, rather, actually persuing the subject of your comparison yields the opposite conclusion to the one you claimed.

Your most recent post is a strawman, replacing the things ive said with different arguments you feel more capable of winning. Unfortunately, your frantic grasping for more and more gripes has resulted in more kettle logic, you would literally be much better off had you just stuck to your original singular argument.

[JoshZebra]

Well, for starters, Im this boards resident #1 enemy of pokemon, reviled and hated by all and any pokemon fans.

You shouldnt 'write down' kettle logic, you should look it up, othetwise, when you inevitably use the term incorrectly, youll see me again.

I dont attack people, I deconstruct their bad logic and fallacious arguments.

You've stopped giving opinions and began a 'fact' based comparison argument a considerable time ago. Unfortunately your logic is faulty and doesnt verify your conclusions, rather, actually persuing the subject of your comparison yields the opposite conclusion to the one you claimed.

Your most recent post is a strawman, replacing the things ive said with different arguments you feel more capable of winning. Unfortunately, your frantic grasping for more and more gripes has resulted in more kettle logic, you would literally be much better off had you just stuck to your original singular argument.

 

No I just lay off the arguments I don't care about, for me if there is an argument here, the only one worth looking at is about the original post.  There is a 70 Pokemon, right now forget everything else.  I am saying that is nowhere near enough for a game produced with a lot of funds and is a major franchise for Nintendo.  Now I am getting people trying to justify it with loads of irrelevant arguments.  I'm giving my opinion and you're calling it a weak argument? The weak argument is the ones put to me to argue my opinion.  If you want facts then here they are - major franchise, huge investment, 15 years of work, very familiar with Nintendo's architecture, has a pattern of releasing more than 100 new monsters.  So for me, it is illogical to defend it but that is me, someone else can come along and say that's dandy.  It is an opinion.  And that is why my argument probably seems work cos it isn't one.  I was just saying I don't think it is a lot. 

[Ixchel]

Okay, this is just getting weird. Time to dump some info.

 

I think the tl;dr problem here is that fans sort of took for granted that the hardware leap would cause a graphically superior game, like it always has, but this is the first time that we're getting below 100 new pokemon. I don't see why it's any surprise that this is disappointing. Players obviously expected both.

 

Both Serebii and this event claim grid based diagonol movement http://ds.mmgn.com/A...-and-y-revealed 

 

As for the battle animations, there hasn't been enough footage uploaded to suggest that they're not going the old way of having one animation per attack like every game, and about 5 different unique animations per pokemon, to properly illustrate physical, special, damage, etc, like the 3D console ones. So there's not too much uncharted territory here. They're not gonna make individual animations per attack, would both be insane and prevent special move event pokemon without patching.

 

Furthermore, there was nothing forcing Pokemon to release this year. It could have easily been pushed forward to keep up with general expectations. Of course fans are going to feel that using something expected as an excuse for the lack of 30 pokemon is... an excuse. What's another 150 animations on top of 3600? Especially when combined with the fact that there will be no 3D overworld on a 3D system, it just seems rushed in general.

Of course, this is all assuming you don't count the mega evolutions as new pokemon. While they do not have separate dex entries, nor specific movesets, and therefor do not officially count as new pokemon in game, there has been over 20 found to exist so far by leakers.

http://i.imgur.com/X6GVi7F.png

http://i.imgur.com/jGHpqv9.jpg

So there may very well be 100 new pokemon forms total.