66 replies to this topic

[KingBoo]

if not, i don't know what they're waiting for. 

[Jeremygts]

Is the whole world on dope???? Does anyone know the definition of the word "Generation"?!? http://www.merriam-w...nary/generation There it is if anyone needs help... Now add the word "NEXT".  You get the word "Next-Gen".

Now "Next-Gen" means... wait for it...  The next generation of a family or in our case the newst console in the Nintendo Family.

The thread is pointless, WiiU is already doing "Next-Gen" stuff because well its the next generation which since the 3 main players are out "Current-Gen".

 

An easier example is this. I would be considered first Generation, My son would be "Next-Gen" or 2nd generation.

Sorry but im sick of reading this crap all over the web, i didnt mean to snap on anyone or point fingers at anyone just wanted to get this off my chest for awhile and well this is the only gaming community im a member of besides MiiVerse...

 

Edited by Jeremygts, 17 December 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[GAMER1984]

Wow! People are really butt hurt over the next gen term. This thread is about game engines and if nintendo has invested time and money into creating a new one for WiiU hardware and features. Damn if you don't know anything about engines it is ok not to reply.

[Nintyfan86]

Wow! People are really butt hurt over the next gen term. This thread is about game engines and if nintendo has invested time and money into creating a new one for WiiU hardware and features. Damn if you don't know anything about engines it is ok not to reply.

 

I have written three sentences to apply to this thread, but none of them come off the way I want them to. Hang with me through my conjecture:

 

They have a community patch to make Crysis 3 use DX 10. So, a PC with Nvidia cards, say a 295GTX, a 690GTX, and some lucky person with a Maxwell card is testing the game. The 295 is DX 10, and will not run DX 11 features,  but we can compare what they can do when looking at the 690 GTX (a DX 11 GPU for those who may not know). 

 

Back in console land, we know what M$ and Sony went with, yet Nintendo is a little more difficult (is it a 4, 5, or 6xxx series based gpu?).  If we had a game come to all three platforms, with equal attention and time spent on the Wii U version, we could have an answer when looking at current games. 

 

I am sure guys like you know what your looking at with on screen features, where as guys like me build PC's for raw power and FPS at high resolutions (ok, maybe they know more about what they are seeing on screen. I know when a feature is not there, but I cannot pin point it.)

 

Someone like 3ddude can probably look at these features, the die shots, and then piece this together, but in my case, I would need to see an analysis comparing like games on the same engines to even really discuss it. 

[3Dude]

I have written three sentences to apply to this thread, but none of them come off the way I want them to. Hang with me through my conjecture:
 
They have a community patch to make Crysis 3 use DX 10. So, a PC with Nvidia cards, say a 295GTX, a 690GTX, and some lucky person with a Maxwell card is testing the game. The 295 is DX 10, and will not run DX 11 features,  but we can compare what they can do when looking at the 690 GTX (a DX 11 GPU for those who may not know). 
 
Back in console land, we know what M$ and Sony went with, yet Nintendo is a little more difficult (is it a 4, 5, or 6xxx series based gpu?).  If we had a game come to all three platforms, with equal attention and time spent on the Wii U version, we could have an answer when looking at current games. 
 
I am sure guys like you know what your looking at with on screen features, where as guys like me build PC's for raw power and FPS at high resolutions (ok, maybe they know more about what they are seeing on screen. I know when a feature is not there, but I cannot pin point it.)
 
Someone like 3ddude can probably look at these features, the die shots, and then piece this together, but in my case, I would need to see an analysis comparing like games on the same engines to even really discuss it.

No one can really do more than guess when looking at die shots, placement to ram and number of registers help, but even then, what that logic actualy does simply can not be determined by eyeballing, its really a crap shoot, and some things that blatantly make the most sense turn out to be blatantly wrong so often its almost comical.

What you have suggested would absolutely be a gigantic help... But alas, it will never happen, because 3rd parties cant be arsed to do anything more than fart in the general direction of nintendo platforms and customers, and then complain that we dont eat their farts like 12 peice gourmet meals gifted from god.

[Nintyfan86]

No one can really do more than guess when looking at die shots, placement to ram and number of registers help, but even then, what that logic actualy does simply can not be determined by eyeballing, its really a crap shoot, and some things that blatantly make the most sense turn out to be blatantly wrong so often its almost comical.

What you have suggested would absolutely be a gigantic help... But alas, it will never happen, because 3rd parties cant be arsed to do anything more than fart in the general direction of nintendo platforms and customers, and then complain that we dont eat their farts like 12 peice gourmet meals gifted from god.

Ha, I am going to work this into my next sales analysis. 

 

I don't know how game design generally works, but if we subtract third party from the equation and look at two games; Knack and 3d World. Remember, this is player perception, not an attempt at making a technical analysis. Anyway:

 

Knack was fun for what it was, but there was a good number of noticeable frame drops. There was also many instances where the collision detection did not line up perfectly (playing on hard made this really noticeable). In 3d World, there were some minor frame drops, but no slide shows (Knack's later levels are pretty rough in some spots).

 

After playing through both, I came away thinking that Knack was technical oriented, and Mario was gameplay oriented. I think EAD looks at what they are trying to do from a gameplay perspective, and then dumps enough art on it to accomplish the goal they are after. Japan Studio appears to look at visuals in this case, and then put gameplay in there, almost at a 50/50 split. Nintendo, as a whole, seems to start with gameplay, and then add graphics later, and always views it as 60/40. 

 

The Wonderful 101 is another example (God forbid people be forced to learn a game and then master it. All we need now is for Bayonetta to fail from a sales perspective for Nintendo use it as an example against trying things like this.). Anyway, very impressive from a gameplay perspective, and especially an artwork perspective. I believe I am seeing DX 10 specific features there, especially regarding the blur and lighting effects (character specific). Contrasted with Killzone SF, which I thought went well in the SP campaign, and it looks like both games were designed around gameplay, with graphics being somewhat of an afterthought (both obviously utilized tons of art, motion capture in the case of KZ, and so forth, both both played well, where as Knack did not in all aspects). Again, it is a sin to mention these two games together, but it is just to illustrate a point, and I am also ignoring the FPS difference, as both are very steady from the couch. 

 

Many months ago, I expressed frustration in the lack of strategic planning on Nintendo's behalf. Miyamoto's manpower comment, like this was some shock or excuse, was very surprising coming from a publicly traded company. However, I am starting to think that gameplay is actually their next gen from the software perspective. Sony and MS are using hardware targets, and listening to 3rd parties, but Nintendo is trying to take care of their first goal, with those other things being a very distant 2nd. 

[alan123]

no we have not seen it, it will be the follow up console to the WiiU.

[theizzzeee]

no we have not seen it, it will be the follow up console to the WiiU.

We will see it a lot sooner than that on the Wii U. Mario 3D World, Bayonetta 2 and Mariokart 8 are just the tip of the iceberg.

[GAMER1984]

We will see it a lot sooner than that on the Wii U. Mario 3D World, Bayonetta 2 and Mariokart 8 are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

some people you shouldnt respond to let them comment forget their comment and move on.

[theizzzeee]

some people you shouldnt respond to let them comment forget their comment and move on.

I just like to have fun. I make my comments and go on with the rest of my day.

[xile6]

 
 

Is the whole world on dope???? Does anyone know the definition of the word "Generation"?!? http://www.merriam-w...nary/generation There it is if anyone needs help... Now add the word "NEXT".  You get the word "Next-Gen".
Now "Next-Gen" means... wait for it...  The next generation of a family or in our case the newst console in the Nintendo Family.
The thread is pointless, WiiU is already doing "Next-Gen" stuff because well its the next generation which since the 3 main players are out "Current-Gen".
 
An easier example is this. I would be considered first Generation, My son would be "Next-Gen" or 2nd generation.
Sorry but im sick of reading this crap all over the web, i didnt mean to snap on anyone or point fingers at anyone just wanted to get this off my chest for awhile and well this is the only gaming community im a member of besides MiiVerse...

 
True. Next gen is the next system to follow in that line.
But what people are talking about and wanting is to be wowed.
 
Currently most of the games out there looks just a bit better then last gen at there high.
But with time devs will learn the code better and turn out better games 
There is already a thread on her. Look up metal gear solid and you will see how it got better with time on each system it was on.

[Waller]

 

There's your nuxt yeneration engine at play.

[GAMER1984]

 

There's your nuxt yeneration engine at play.

 

we will see. Looks good but we have to wait until release to see what actual gameplay looks like. there are already droves of people that say red dead redemption, GTA V, and other open world games look better. I guess we will see in do time.

[Mewbot]

In 3d World, there were some minor frame drops

No, there weren't. The game runs silky smooth at 60 fps. 

 

 

If there are any framerate drops (which there aren't in this 5 min long video) they would have to be minor(58 fps or so) and completely unnoticeable to the human eye, without you watching for them throughout the entire playthrough.

[3Dude]

GAMER1984, on 28 Dec 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:
we will see. Looks good but we have to wait until release to see what actual gameplay looks like. there are already droves of people that say red dead redemption, GTA V, and other open world games look better. I guess we will see in do time.

I really dont see how people being stupid has any effect on X blowing the games they brought up out of the water in its alpha/beta state.

Bringing up games that have character polycounts in line with game cube games doesnt show that X looks worse, it shows that they are morons who have useless opinions clearly not based on logic. Here is logic.

http://beyond3d.com/...ead.php?t=43975

Metroid prime 2 Echoes Gamecube
Samus (light suit) - 10K with lightbeam cannon

Red Dead Redemption Xbox360
John Marston - 14,980
John Marston (Deadly Assassin) - 13,362


Metroid Prime 3: Corruption Wii
Samus - 18,962

So, why does a 360 games main character barely edge out a gamecube game but get smoked by a wii game? Its obviously not because the wii is more powerful, its because rdr is an open world game. As an open world game it has a lot of resource overhead and is budgeted to spend less resources on individual assets like characters, in order to spend them on things like, well, open worlds. Which is why they have last gen polycounts.

So, Im going to ignore the people who dont understand the games they are blindly biased towards have gc/wii level character models, who are uselessly stupid.... And now focus on others always found on the same topic who brilliantly compare them to closed world games lik gow... who are usefully stupid.

Saying that a massive open world game the scale of X 'isnt that much/ any better than a high end ps360 game/god of war/typical closed world camera restricted game' IS, inadvertantly, accidentally, idiotically, admitting its well enough beyond the ps360's capabilities.... Which are forced to use cube/wii level character/asset polycounts for models in their open world games.

[Nintyfan86]

No, there weren't. The game runs silky smooth at 60 fps. 

 

 

If there are any framerate drops (which there aren't in this 5 min long video) they would have to be minor(58 fps or so) and completely unnoticeable to the human eye, without you watching for them throughout the entire playthrough.

In my play through, there would only be a slight slowdown when new assets were loading (which is very slight), or when you were breaking boxes and killing enemies, while at the same time leaping around to avoid flying objects and such. Nothing too noticeable, however, it was enough to see something was going on. Maybe it was not FPS drop? Something else that led to a slight input lag and slowdown on screen for a moment? It reminded me of early physics engines on the PC and 360, when they would pause briefly before doing the action on screen. However, nowhere near as severe. 

 

In Knack, some of those later levels are in slow motion. 

 

In that post, I did not want to be dishonest and claim that I did not observe 0 hitches with 3d World. However, compared to those levels in Knack, or in general, it is non-existent unless your either looking for them or prone to noticing them. 

[3Dude]

In my play through, there would only be a slight slowdown when new assets were loading (which is very slight), or when you were breaking boxes and killing enemies, while at the same time leaping around to avoid flying objects and such. Nothing too noticeable, however, it was enough to see something was going on. Maybe it was not FPS drop? Something else that led to a slight input lag and slowdown on screen for a moment? It reminded me of early physics engines on the PC and 360, when they would pause briefly before doing the action on screen. However, nowhere near as severe. 
 
In Knack, some of those later levels are in slow motion. 
 
In that post, I did not want to be dishonest and claim that I did not observe 0 hitches with 3d World. However, compared to those levels in Knack, or in general, it is non-existent unless your either looking for them or prone to noticing them.

Nintendo typically likes to use breif pauses to emphasize certain events, like making contact, this is most likely what you are talking about.

[GAMER1984]

I really dont see how people being stupid has any effect on X blowing the games they brought up out of the water in its alpha/beta state.

Bringing up games that have character polycounts in line with game cube games doesnt show that X looks worse, it shows that they are morons who have useless opinions clearly not based on logic. Here is logic.

http://beyond3d.com/...ead.php?t=43975

Metroid prime 2 Echoes Gamecube
Samus (light suit) - 10K with lightbeam cannon

Red Dead Redemption Xbox360
John Marston - 14,980
John Marston (Deadly Assassin) - 13,362


Metroid Prime 3: Corruption Wii
Samus - 18,962

So, why does a 360 games main character barely edge out a gamecube game but get smoked by a wii game? Its obviously not because the wii is more powerful, its because rdr is an open world game. As an open world game it has a lot of resource overhead and is budgeted to spend less resources on individual assets like characters, in order to spend them on things like, well, open worlds. Which is why they have last gen polycounts.

So, Im going to ignore the people who dont understand the games they are blindly biased towards have gc/wii level character models, who are uselessly stupid.... And now focus on others always found on the same topic who brilliantly compare them to closed world games lik gow... who are usefully stupid.

Saying that a massive open world game the scale of X 'isnt that much/ any better than a high end ps360 game/god of war/typical closed world camera restricted game' IS, inadvertantly, accidentally, idiotically, admitting its well enough beyond the ps360's capabilities.... Which are forced to use cube/wii level character/asset polycounts for models in their open world game

 

 

 

I agree 3dude but is X showing the same level of graphics as the best xb1/ps4 titles? Now obviously Wii U isnt as powerful as those consoles i just cant wait until the game that is undeniable... Like the biggest hater has to give the Wii U its respect on a tech level and what it can produce. X looks amazing to me and will be the first JRPG i eve purchase and o my best to play through it. I dont care for graphics like i dont by a game just based on graphics but it will be nice to see Wii U outperform the last gen without any doubt.

[TheUltimateWaddleDee]

I agree 3dude but is X showing the same level of graphics as the best xb1/ps4 titles? Now obviously Wii U isnt as powerful as those consoles i just cant wait until the game that is undeniable... Like the biggest hater has to give the Wii U its respect on a tech level and what it can produce. X looks amazing to me and will be the first JRPG i eve purchase and o my best to play through it. I dont care for graphics like i dont by a game just based on graphics but it will be nice to see Wii U outperform the last gen without any doubt.

There are only two ganes that can be used as a proper comparison when compared to PS4/Xbox 1: Infamous Second Son and Witcher 3. They are both extremely detailed and large open world games that claim to not have loading times in the world.

Edited by TheUltimateWaddleDee, 28 December 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[GAMER1984]

There are only two ganes that can be used as a proper comparison when compared to PS4/Xbox 1: Infamous Second Son and Witcher 3. They are both extremely detailed and large open world games that claim to not have loading times in the world.

 

Like i said Wii U is that weird in between console.  The funniest thing i cant believe is Iwata had the nerve to come out and say he doesnt understand why people think the Wii U is underpowered. I mean a year in and it isnt outperforming a console released in 2005. I mean i know there are thing that play into that as far as the engine and porting games. I just think Nintendo needs to do more to show what the console is capable of.