103 replies to this topic

[YoshiGamer9]

Imo, I think they removed enemies and NPCs for this short demo and possibly will do the same for the E3 demo to keep the framerate from dropping, I wonder how they'll actually present it at E3, I hope they show off a dungeon

They arent tiny details, they are kind of large structures, given away by blatant design changes in the scenery around them, ie paths and clearings to get to them. I think it would be pretty easy to miss them if looking for tiny pixel details, instead of more big picture, like missing the forest for the trees or something.

Im pretty good at finding that kind of stuff, its literally the founding mechanic of my favourite genre and design style. Honestly, people who cant yet do that are probably in the 'sweet spot' where the impact of stumbling upon, and discovering, and getting adept at finding things will be the greatest. So what REALLY grinds my gears are these obnoxious crappers who think they know SO MUCH, miss EVERYTHING and complain about the game not having things. The whole POINT of the schopl of design zelda was founded on (and the 3d games destroyed) was the excitement and sense of accomplishment that came with FINDING things, which means no neon signs pointing them out, no painfully obvious cutscene introduced, step by step forced walkthrough. Its not obvious, its not supposed to be obvious, and thats the point.

People just VASTLY over estimate their abilities, thinking they are geniuses at game design, when they actually know jack crap. In fact they know so little, they LITERALLY can not begin to comprehend the knowledge it would take for them to REALIZE how ignorant they are. Straight up text book dunning kroger:
http://en.m.wikipedi...g–Kruger_effect

Pandering to them is what has destroyed gaming, design has gotten dumber, and dumber, and dumber, and dumber, and dumber, just to appease them and their pitiful powers of observation attached to their obnoxious entitled arrogance.

 

But Nintendo says otherwise so yay

[NintendoReport]

Look at the sunlight reflecting off that grass. 

 

 

oh and look at the grass move around the horsie's hooves

[Raiden]

How am I going to cut all that

[3Dude]

Look at the sunlight reflecting off that grass. 
 

 
oh and look at the grass move around the horsie's hooves

If anyone wants a really good look at the grass and things up close, the best quality video is on the eshop. Somebody needs to make a zoomed in version of that feed.

You can actually see that the flowers and wheat stalks are actually still there.

[aaron]

thank god. seems the green tunic won't be required at least

[TibetanMonk]

Look at the sunlight reflecting off that grass. 

 

 

oh and look at the grass move around the horsie's hooves

 

It's Zelda in a really beautifull open world; This will likely become my all time favorite Wii U game!

Edited by TibetanMonk, 06 December 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[DéliopT]

Finally...

 

I love Zelda 1 so i obviously love that comparison.

 

Actually the game is starting to give a Zelda 1 vibe with all the exploration already shown.

Really can't wait to see more of it.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

It happened in Ocarina of Time, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was in this time around as well.

Would the environment change according to the time in the game?

 

Man you think that's bad? Not one person pronounced Kondo's name correctly all night. Reggie included. Felt so sorry for the guy, though he's probably used to it.

I was not expecting the first actual kind-of-gameplay of the new Zelda game to be shown off on some show that I didn't care enough about to actually watch...

 

Also, do my ears deceive me, or did Reggie pronounce Aonuma as Ainuma in that video?

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

Look at the sunlight reflecting off that grass. 

 

 

oh and look at the grass move around the horsie's hooves

I'm beginning to wonder if i'm crazy. Are we seriously comparing the density of an on screen 40 second long semi-cinematic trailer to a 4 minute long gameplay demo? Are people seriously suggesting that the game isn't as colourful? That the grass doesn't look way nicer in the new demo compared to the old trailer? It's not sticking out in different directions, is consistently lighted and isn't washed out in areas. And that's while it's interacting with these horses, which it didn't appear to be doing at all in the trailer. Like have people ever actually seen grass? Don't they know this is much closer to how real grass looks and behaves? 

And complaining about under-population? What did you think would happen in the demo? There would just be a flock of birds following link around, random NPC's living in the middle of the forest waving as he went by and who knows what else?

What's wrong with having a little bit of room to just enjoy the beauty of a world? I know it's one of my absolute favourite things, and one of the main reasons I love playing MMORPG's, especially ones where you can fly. I mean especially if you take into account how huge that map was? He said it would take five minutes to get to the tower from where he was. Go back, look at the video and see how small that five distance is in comparison to the rest of the map. hat thing looks like it would take at least an hour to ride across if that comparison is true. Why in the world would you expect all of that space to be densely populated? Only the biggest cities in the world like New York are like that, and they wouldn't have been in the time period Zelda takes place in. And why do you even want it to be so populated? You know you'll just talk to them once then ignore them 90% of the time. They'll just detract from the beauty you can see in the world by having large open spaces like this.

This demo looks incredible to me. It excited me much, much, much more than the original trailer. I love the open world. i love the fact there aren't NPC's and monsters bothering you every two seconds. I really loved that part of running with the wild horses (seriously, I REALLY loved that. Kid of hoping you can catch them and ride them, though I know it's very unlikely ) I love that they're really focusing on how the world feels and not just throwing stuff in there because it looks impressive or so they can brag about how it's a technical feat. The thing with horses not bumping into trees? It's such a small detail but it honestly just make the experience so much better, because it feels more like actually riding a horse (also because it always breaks my suspension of belief when your character bumps into a small object and just starts senselessly running on the spot. Are you really that stupid? You can't walk around the rock?)

The sunset, the mountains, the trees. It really is a beautiful landscape, and it's a world i'm really looking forward to being able to explore.

Edited by WydrA, 06 December 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[CUD]

What I'm hoping for is the ability to kill the wild horses and sleep inside their carcass like a Tauntaun in Star Wars.

[Portal]

What I'm hoping for is the ability to kill the wild horses and sleep inside their carcass like a Tauntaun in Star Wars.

Zelda U GOAT confirmed!

[YoshiGamer9]

So many questions! Excited?

I think there is quite a bit of meat to the simple gamplay shown. Wish I had my pc with me right now, so i could really dig in. Ill try to answer some questions I feel I may have some insight on.

I wouldnt be surprised if the arrows over enemies is a placeholder. Final 2d hud graphics can come pretty late in the game, with placeholders used from previous libraries, or just thrown together (go look at early hud elements of X, or xenoblade).

Could be motion controls, though i doubt they will be as in depth as SS because of traditional controls also being an option. Could just be they got used to making him a rightie.

Hyrulians creed. (hylian doesnt work with the bad pun, wait, maybe it does?) Hylians Creed. Eh take your pick.

Likely because he doesnt want to confirm or deny. The whole point of a world like this is the mystery and awe of discovery. Actually FINDING dungeons again... Could it really be that glorious?

Probably just pointing out the real time day cycles... Conspicuously missing from SS. Though, it is a 3d Zelda standard for things to happen, or change at certain times.

The tunic of the hero has been a fairly big plot point in the past couple games. Im not surprised they are holding off.

I also wouldnt be surprised if they turned a lot of things off, and were using the debugger/specifically altered version of the game, to ensure everything happened, or didnt happen, in a way that showed just what they wanted to show, with no unexpected glitches, crashes and other surprises, or... Spoilers.

 

 

I can't believe I missed this post, thanks!

It happened in Ocarina of Time, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was in this time around as well.

Would the environment change according to the time in the game?

 

Man you think that's bad? Not one person pronounced Kondo's name correctly all night. Reggie included. Felt so sorry for the guy, though he's probably used to it.

I was not expecting the first actual kind-of-gameplay of the new Zelda game to be shown off on some show that I didn't care enough about to actually watch...

 

Also, do my ears deceive me, or did Reggie pronounce Aonuma as Ainuma in that video?

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

Look at the sunlight reflecting off that grass. 

 

 

oh and look at the grass move around the horsie's hooves

I'm beginning to wonder if i'm crazy. Are we seriously comparing the density of an on screen 40 second long semi-cinematic trailer to a 4 minute long gameplay demo? Are people seriously suggesting that the game isn't as colourful? That the grass doesn't look way nicer in the new demo compared to the old trailer? It's not sticking out in different directions, is consistently lighted and isn't washed out in areas. And that's while it's interacting with these horses, which it didn't appear to be doing at all in the trailer. Like have people ever actually seen grass? Don't they know this is much closer to how real grass looks and behaves? 

And complaining about under-population? What did you think would happen in the demo? There would just be a flock of birds following link around, random NPC's living in the middle of the forest waving as he went by and who knows what else?

What's wrong with having a little bit of room to just enjoy the beauty of a world? I know it's one of my absolute favourite things, and one of the main reasons I love playing MMORPG's, especially ones where you can fly. I mean especially if you take into account how huge that map was? He said it would take five minutes to get to the tower from where he was. Go back, look at the video and see how small that five distance is in comparison to the rest of the map. hat thing looks like it would take at least an hour to ride across if that comparison is true. Why in the world would you expect all of that space to be densely populated? Only the biggest cities in the world like New York are like that, and they wouldn't have been in the time period Zelda takes place in. And why do you even want it to be so populated? You know you'll just talk to them once then ignore them 90% of the time. They'll just detract from the beauty you can see in the world by having large open spaces like this.

This demo looks incredible to me. It excited me much, much, much more than the original trailer. I love the open world. i love the fact there aren't NPC's and monsters bothering you every two seconds. I really loved that part of running with the wild horses (seriously, I REALLY loved that. Kid of hoping you can catch them and ride them, though I know it's very unlikely ) I love that they're really focusing on how the world feels and not just throwing stuff in there because it looks impressive or so they can brag about how it's a technical feat. The thing with horses not bumping into trees? It's such a small detail but it honestly just make the experience so much better, because it feels more like actually riding a horse (also because it always breaks my suspension of belief when your character bumps into a small object and just starts senselessly running on the spot. Are you really that stupid? You can't walk around the rock?)

The sunset, the mountains, the trees. It really is a beautiful landscape, and it's a world i'm really looking forward to being able to explore.

 

Honestly, if I wanted to spend hours in the middle of a forest doing nothing, I would just go outside...

 

This is a video game after all, they wouldn't want to bore us that much.

[3Dude]

I can't believe I missed this post, thanks!


 
Honestly, if I wanted to spend hours in the middle of a forest doing nothing, I would just go outside...
 
This is a video game after all, they wouldn't want to bore us that much.

I think a lot of people are getting hung up on this because they are watching instead of doing.

First and foremost, lets just get this out of the way: The final product will be teeming with background life. Thats just a given.

So, it is important to have that bit of forest with nothing in it. Its like the rests, and spaces between notes in music, it forms the rythm of the melody, constantly assaulting the player with busy work and inane things to do is like just having every instrument blasting at the same time. Its just noise. Too many games today are just design noise.

Now, what we dont want is a barren overworld with nothing to do. Thats what TP was, and I can already tell, this isnt it.

Now, while there may be patches of time where we are just passing through serene forest thats pretty to look at, this ok, its like a rest in music, its important for developing the rythm. What we want isne necessarilly being kept constantly busy, like a child with no attention span constantly needing keys jingled in front of him. No, we need lots of places to find, and quality things to find when we get their.

The journey through the landscape that is not constantly stimulating builds tension, as you remain focused on where you are going, and not 'OH SQUIRREL!!! HE WANTS ME TO GET HIS NUTS!!!'

What is it? Whats going to be there? Will I get something?

What we need are lots of these, of high quality. Windwaker tried to do something similar, and did a great job, but was held back by the limits of the time and technology. With only one island per square kilometer, there was a lot of area, and the things to do were quality, but was not enough places to go and things to do. Twilight princess had neither enough places to go, nor quality things to do for its world size. Tossing in inane fetch quests like bugs and poes, does not come remotely close to meeting designed areas with things to do.

This seems to be taking a similar approach to WW, but ramping up the number of points of interest, places the player will see and want to go too, to a very high density.

In windwaker, you could typically see 3 places to go at any time. Islands in the middle of nowhere, one front, one left, one right. Cant see behind you.

Here, just glancing over the cliff i am overloaded with the amount of set peices I see. Each and every one of them is likely the equivilant of an island in ww, its a designed place to go with something unique to do. And there were so many of them. And thats just a tiny area of a huge map.

[MatrixChicken]

*snip*

 

Like I said, we'll have to wait to pass judgement until direct feed near-complete footage comes out. But still, if they had more densely populated areas to show, they should have showed them. Then there wouldn't be anybody complaining about emptiness. Hopefully we see some more before E3.

[YoshiGamer9]

 

I think a lot of people are getting hung up on this because they are watching instead of doing.

First and foremost, lets just get this out of the way: The final product will be teeming with background life. Thats just a given.

So, it is important to have that bit of forest with nothing in it. Its like the rests, and spaces between notes in music, it forms the rythm of the melody, constantly assaulting the player with busy work and inane things to do is like just having every instrument blasting at the same time. Its just noise. Too many games today are just design noise.

Now, what we dont want is a barren overworld with nothing to do. Thats what TP was, and I can already tell, this isnt it.

Now, while there may be patches of time where we are just passing through serene forest thats pretty to look at, this ok, its like a rest in music, its important for developing the rythm. What we want isne necessarilly being kept constantly busy, like a child with no attention span constantly needing keys jingled in front of him. No, we need lots of places to find, and quality things to find when we get their.

The journey through the landscape that is not constantly stimulating builds tension, as you remain focused on where you are going, and not 'OH SQUIRREL!!! HE WANTS ME TO GET HIS NUTS!!!'

What is it? Whats going to be there? Will I get something?

What we need are lots of these, of high quality. Windwaker tried to do something similar, and did a great job, but was held back by the limits of the time and technology. With only one island per square kilometer, there was a lot of area, and the things to do were quality, but was not enough places to go and things to do. Twilight princess had neither enough places to go, nor quality things to do for its world size. Tossing in inane fetch quests like bugs and poes, does not come remotely close to meeting designed areas with things to do.

This seems to be taking a similar approach to WW, but ramping up the number of points of interest, places the player will see and want to go too, to a very high density.

In windwaker, you could typically see 3 places to go at any time. Islands in the middle of nowhere, one front, one left, one right. Cant see behind you.

Here, just glancing over the cliff i am overloaded with the amount of set peices I see. Each and every one of them is likely the equivilant of an island in ww, its a designed place to go with something unique to do. And there were so many of them. And thats just a tiny area of a huge map.

 

Ignore the top box, I did a double reply by accident...

 

I hope that the game will change according to the seasons, imagine seeing Zelda U with snow everywhere, throw snowballs at gannondorf to defeat him lol XD

 

The world in Twilight princess was SO boring, didn't wanna travel there at all...

 

Ocarina of time was perfect though, small but packed with enough things to keep you busy.

 

Well, I wouldn't mind it if they kept you occupied when travelling to another place, like  make it so you can upgrade your gear/ change it as epona goes to the destination.

[Raiden]

lol OoT in terms of size in 1998 people were acting the same way now about this Zelda world. Thought it was massive and mindblowing. I mean like you went up Death Mountain and can see Kakariko Village and when it went to nightime could see the houses lights turned on. This was a cool detail then as games in 3D was pretty new still. Of course now you look at it and see a fuzzy texture. Just Nintendo always had that ability to blow minds and get people talking about Zelda.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I can't believe I missed this post, thanks!

 

Honestly, if I wanted to spend hours in the middle of a forest doing nothing, I would just go outside...

 

This is a video game after all, they wouldn't want to bore us that much.

 

 

Like I said, we'll have to wait to pass judgement until direct feed near-complete footage comes out. But still, if they had more densely populated areas to show, they should have showed them. Then there wouldn't be anybody complaining about emptiness. Hopefully we see some more before E3.

 

I feel like the point of this demo was simply to show how beautiful the world they've create so far is. That wouldn't have come across nearly as well in a densely populated area. Nintendo isn't Ubisoft, they're not about trying brag about how many AI's that you don't actually care about are walking around the town. You guys are saying you want to see more people and things but for what? You know when you play the game you might say "Wow, that's a lot of people" once, but after that you won't care.

[3Dude]

Ignore the top box, I did a double reply by accident...
 
I hope that the game will change according to the seasons, imagine seeing Zelda U with snow everywhere, throw snowballs at gannondorf to defeat him lol XD
 
The world in Twilight princess was SO boring, didn't wanna travel there at all...
 
Ocarina of time was perfect though, small but packed with enough things to keep you busy.
 
Well, I wouldn't mind it if they kept you occupied when travelling to another place, like  make it so you can upgrade your gear/ change it as epona goes to the destination.

Seasons would be cool.

Im pretty sure you will be able to change your gear on the touch pad while eponas ai doesnt run into trees. You will also be free to look around and notice places you might want to check out along the way. What we dont need, is Ubicrap everywhere.

Im starting to suspect flight will be featured in this game as a late game travel mechanic. The engine seems more than capable of supporting it.

[MatrixChicken]

I feel like the point of this demo was simply to show how beautiful the world they've create so far is. That wouldn't have come across nearly as well in a densely populated area. Nintendo isn't Ubisoft, they're not about trying brag about how many AI's that you don't actually care about are walking around the town. You guys are saying you want to see more people and things but for what? You know when you play the game you might say "Wow, that's a lot of people" once, but after that you won't care.

 

Nah, that's just silly. You can have a town and npcs but still have an amazing looking world in the background. All we're saying is there are some points in the video where it's really empty. Not only devoid of animals and enemies, but of interesting things in general. The grass does indeed look amazing, and the lighting is great, but that doesn't make it good. I wouldn't buy a game where the extent of its praises were that the grass was good and the world looks good. I need things to do. Gameplay.

 

EDIT: And the "wow, that's a lot of people" to me is the same as "look at this amazing grass" to you. I'd rather look at an awesome landscape with bright, colorful fields with large boulders, a farm town, and a mountainous backdrop (what we got at E3) than a flat plain with some trees. The parts in the video where they're up high, looking down at everything, those parts look amazing. So what I'm saying is I hope they make the world just as interesting up close as when you're far away looking down at it.

Edited by MatrixChicken, 06 December 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[3Dude]

Nah, that's just silly. You can have a town and npcs but still have an amazing looking world in the background. All we're saying is there are some points in the video where it's really empty. Not only devoid of animals and enemies, but of interesting things in general. The grass does indeed look amazing, and the lighting is great, but that doesn't make it good. I wouldn't buy a game where the extent of its praises were that the grass was good and the world looks good. I need things to do. Gameplay.

But cramming those things in every second of the game is just design noise. Its Ubicrap.

The video literally showed the landscape was PACKED with places to go and check out. The constant editing was probably removing them so they arent spoiled.

I agree with nintendo on this. When your game is literally based on discovery, everything you show beihg discovered erodes at its enjoyment once you finally get it. To that end, I already am planning on going on a blackout for this.

*EDIT* DUDE you need to find a better quality video. That look over the cliff was jam packed with land marks and features to exlore.

[MatrixChicken]

But cramming those things in every second of the game is just design noise. Its Ubicrap.

The video literally showed the landscape was PACKED with places to go and check out. The constant editing was probably removing them so they arent spoiled.

I agree with nintendo on this. When your game is literally based on discovery, everything you show beihg discovered erodes at its enjoyment once you finally get it. To that end, I already am planning on going on a blackout for this.

*EDIT* DUDE you need to find a better quality video. That look over the cliff was jam packed with land marks and features to exlore.

 

lol "I agree with nintendo on this" what on earth? Agree on what? That barren overworlds are better?

 

Anyways, I can see your point, and I hope you're right that they're just avoiding the densely populated areas so they aren't spoiled.

 

As for your edit, look at my edit. The parts when they're up high are awesome and detailed.