139 replies to this topic

[esrever]

I guess you didnt know? The wii u cpu doesnt run the os and apps like its browser, its arm coprocessor does. You are comparing an arm to an arm, not a power derivitive.

But seriously dude, even at 24nm a subwatt processor for a battery device is NOT going to be outmuscling a walled device taking 15 watts unless there is a huge gap in time. Thats just reality man.

Like the dedicated sound chip, Nintendos system design removes all unecessary loads from the cpu.

Although 180% is nothing. Audiokinetic acheived performance increases of 500% from optimizations to their wwise 2012 v2 middleware.

The who system draws 35W, the gpu is more than 5x the size of the cpu. Therefor the cpu should draw about 5 watts. Where is it written that the Wii has a ARM core for the OS? I don't think I read that from any release information unless its just rumor. 180% increase from working software is a great challenge. The software would have to be in alpha phase to consider such improvements.

I haven't been following, but I can probably assume correctly from the last post that this thread has degraded into a bitter war over the small things.

To put it in the most basic way possible, the most BASIC way, there are developers out there who are finding the CPU underwhelming. It may or may not be the case, that this fact will affect certain game production toward the Wii U. Worst case scenario would be particular games not reaching the Wii U because of it. That's not to say that the Wii U is a flop, just that different development methods need to be adopted to make things work. Remember, that not every developer is complaining about this feature, nor are they predicting the Wii U's doom because of it alone.

developers aren't ussually ones to talk much about things like this, it took a long time before it was comon knowledge how hard it was to program for the ps3. Its not all doom and gloom since nintendo will deliver good first party games most likely and there will probably be good 360 and ps3 ports eventually.

[Joshua]

So after watching Shokio's latest video concerning the CPU dilemma, he did raise up a very good point with the Wii U's GPGPU.

Here is the Wikipedia definition;
"General-purpose computing on graphics processing units (GPGPU, GPGP or less often GP²U) is the utilization of a graphics processing unit (GPU), which typically handles computation only for computer graphics, to perform computation in applications traditionally handled by the central processing unit (CPU).

It seems as though the Wii U's GPGPU can also compensate to do the tasks a CPU would require. And from what we know the Wii U's GPU has been praised... I think; correct me on that one.

[esrever]

So after watching Shokio's latest video concerning the CPU dilemma, he did raise up a very good point with the Wii U's GPGPU.

Here is the Wikipedia definition;
"General-purpose computing on graphics processing units (GPGPU, GPGP or less often GP²U) is the utilization of a graphics processing unit (GPU), which typically handles computation only for computer graphics, to perform computation in applications traditionally handled by the central processing unit (CPU).

It seems as though the Wii U's GPGPU can also compensate to do the tasks a CPU would require. And from what we know the Wii U's GPU has been praised... I think; correct me on that one.

yes the gpu is the strongest part of the system. GPGPU will allow physics and effects to be calculated on the gpu. Things like pathing and AI will still need to be on the CPU. Its definately something that can be implimented to ease the CPU.

[Soul]

http://www.vgleaks.c...-V1-600x394.jpg

[Skywalkman-GB]

Devs make games that use cpu for prossessing and gpu for graphics which makes it easy to port from pc to 360 to ps3. But because of the Wii U way of doing things, Requiring the use of the gpu to handle prossessing tasks to get the benefit of the better gpu etc, to get the most out of the system the devs need to design a game specificly for the wii u, and due to expense they are not going to do that, so 3rd party games are going to look the same or worse!.

But games designed on the wii u, with proper use of the engine, will look fantastic, and yes, better looking than any current system out there apart from the pc

i mean look at NVIDIA and CUDA, they have done this, made it possible to use the gpu instead of cpu, games such as batman benefit and look better with superb physics etc, which free's up the cpu for other tasks, but from a devs point of view, why implement that when ATI dont, so instead they use the standard cpu for cpu tasks and gpu for graphics, same for all pc users, nice and simple and unity, thats why we hardly see cuda and nvidia physx enabled pc games, mostly just nvidas tech demos lol

Unless nintendo can some how manage to persuade devs to use their own engine to make the most out of the wii u for multi platform games like cod, most are gunna look the same or inferior

But knowing the fact that the wii u is a very capable machine in the right devs hands and will out shine any current gen out there (well at the moment lol), emagine the look of the nintendo games to come:), I cant wait for ZELDA!!!!!!!!!, MARIO!!!!!, the reason why i chose nintendo, and those are the reasons why i chose the NES, SNES, N64, GAMECUBE and WII, because of the nintendo games

To some it up, we know the wii u is capable of being the strongest console out there today!, we know 3rd party games are going to look the same or possibly worse than the competition, we know wii u designed games are going to look the best, and thats the botton line

[3Dude]

http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CAT-DEV-V1-600x394.jpg

Yes, thats the v1 devkit they based all their 'leaked specs' off of, and the source of all the not good whining. From people who had 'early looks' at the wii u and dismissed it.

Compatability was broke with v2to 4, the system changed so much old code wouldnt even work anymore, compatability was broke again with v4.

We are now on V5, and it outperferms v1 by 600%, and software still has a LOT of room for optimization.

[Alex Wolfers]

THQ aint in the position to be picky. The Wii U seems to be a profitable train to ride on and if THQ doest want to cash in on it so its THQ's loss and perhaps their eventual death.

[illogicology]

THQ aint in the position to be picky. The Wii U seems to be a profitable train to ride on and if THQ doest want to cash in on it so its THQ's loss and perhaps their eventual death.

It is right now but that might not be the case for long. Nintendo has been pretty clever in getting the jump on the competition like this, but AAA titles can take years to develop well. THQ might miss out for a year, but the truth is that the Wii U is something of a gamble, and nobody knows where Nintendo will be in 2014. I can think of another console that launched a year before the competition, did very well for a bit and then died, taking the whole hardware division of its parent company with it.

[3Dude]

The who system draws 35W, the gpu is more than 5x the size of the cpu. Therefor the cpu should draw about 5 watts. Where is it written that the Wii has a ARM core for the OS? I don't think I read that from any release information unless its just rumor. 180% increase from working software is a great challenge. The software would have to be in alpha phase to consider such improvements.
developers aren't ussually ones to talk much about things like this, it took a long time before it was comon knowledge how hard it was to program for the ps3. Its not all doom and gloom since nintendo will deliver good first party games most likely and there will probably be good 360 and ps3 ports eventually.

No, YOU didnt hear about ps3 difficulties until later on down the road. Devs were whining about the horribly ineffecient cpu's in the ps3 AND 360, in order deep pipelined, crap branch prediction, with a 500 cycle miss penalty, all the way up until the point the wii was announced.

And the system draws 75 watts from the wall, depending on the effeciency rating of the psu, we are probably looking at a max draw of 60 watts. The system draws 33 watts when its not doing anything, and 35 watts when playing nsmbu (LOL). Id hardly consider that putting the system under an average load, you DO know every system ever made draws more power if the game is more demanding, or do you SERIOUSLY think the wii draws the same power playing nsmb vs skyward sword, or a 360 uses the same power when playing geometry wars vs halo 4. Your logic is extremely poor.

Ha ha. Are you serious? 1.8x optimization performance is a serious challenge on a new system?

Shin en: 'For instance, with only some
tiny changes we were able to optimize certain
heavy load parts of the rendering pipeline to 6x
of the original speed, and that was even without
using any of the extra cores.'

600% performance increase. on 1 core. with 3 cores on parellelizable code, 1800% performance increase.

Audiokinetic wwise middle ware, 2012 v2 (first optimizations made to wii u support.)

Wii U™
Audio on Wiimote and rumble on Wiimote and
DRC is now supported. Delay, Peak Limiter and
RoomVerb have been optimized by 2.3x to 4.4x
on Wii U.

230% to 440% performance increase. (this is for porting games from ps360 using the wwise middleware, so they are using the cpu and not the audio dsp.)

http://www.audiokine...news/227-2012-2

[Alex Wolfers]

It is right now but that might not be the case for long. Nintendo has been pretty clever in getting the jump on the competition like this, but AAA titles can take years to develop well. THQ might miss out for a year, but the truth is that the Wii U is something of a gamble, and nobody knows where Nintendo will be in 2014. I can think of another console that launched a year before the competition, did very well for a bit and then died, taking the whole hardware division of its parent company with it.

Have you even read about the PS4/nextbox rumors? Other than power they sound stupid. So I think the Big N is safe.

[Alianjaro]

JO3H - It's Nintendo's fault for not telling us the specs in the first place. Their fanbase, us, want to know. And it could have saved a lot of discussion had they told us.

That would't have been a smart move. If they had said it, Sony and Microsoft would clearly have made their console more powerful. By not telling anything about specs, Sony and Microsoft didn't know where to set the bar powerwise so they had to go with their own plans. Who knows if the next generation will be as powerful as we all think?

[illogicology]

Have you even read about the PS4/nextbox rumors? Other than power they sound stupid. So I think the Big N is safe.

Rumours are just that, rumours. This Wii U is a very risky move and releasing now means it has to fight for a market share during two console generations. Launching a console a year ahead of the competition, with less power than the competition and relying on more unconventional features to differentiate yourself in the market is a risky strategy. It paid off for Nintendo with the Wii but that was in a very different economic climate and with an industry in a very different place. Furthermore, in a year's time the Wii U isn't just going to be fighting against the new consoles, but against the Wii's reputation which was soured towards the end of its life. There's a section of the Wii owning market that felt marginalised in the last generation and they'll be more cautious this time and so all Microsoft and Sony really need to do to win over that demographic is promise a steady supply of mainstream, modern games.

[Plutonas]

what are you comparing with this images... wii U apps with tablet apps? give me a break... Compare it with a console or a pc, not a phone!! This image tells u nothing... u cant compare prortables with a desktop console

Edited by Orion, 23 November 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[Nollog]

http://www.destructo...ts-239137.phtml

Backtracking 101, stay in business.

[3Dude]

http://www.destructo...ts-239137.phtml

Backtracking 101, stay in business.

I might be more inclined to believe that article if this wasnt like, the third time in a row the same thing has happened and the company or individual said that the media changed their words.

First Harada going apepoo all over twitter saying his words were changed about the tekken comment, then the dynasty warriors guy, then the sonic racing transformed team.

Sorry 'journalists', Id like to believe you, but apparantly you never learned the meaning of the story of 'the little boy who cried wolf'.

[esrever]

No, YOU didnt hear about ps3 difficulties until later on down the road. Devs were whining about the horribly ineffecient cpu's in the ps3 AND 360, in order deep pipelined, crap branch prediction, with a 500 cycle miss penalty, all the way up until the point the wii was announced.

And the system draws 75 watts from the wall, depending on the effeciency rating of the psu, we are probably looking at a max draw of 60 watts. The system draws 33 watts when its not doing anything, and 35 watts when playing nsmbu (LOL). Id hardly consider that putting the system under an average load, you DO know every system ever made draws more power if the game is more demanding, or do you SERIOUSLY think the wii draws the same power playing nsmb vs skyward sword, or a 360 uses the same power when playing geometry wars vs halo 4. Your logic is extremely poor.

Ha ha. Are you serious? 1.8x optimization performance is a serious challenge on a new system?

Shin en: 'For instance, with only some
tiny changes we were able to optimize certain
heavy load parts of the rendering pipeline to 6x
of the original speed, and that was even without
using any of the extra cores.'

600% performance increase. on 1 core. with 3 cores on parellelizable code, 1800% performance increase.

Audiokinetic wwise middle ware, 2012 v2 (first optimizations made to wii u support.)

Wii U™
Audio on Wiimote and rumble on Wiimote and
DRC is now supported. Delay, Peak Limiter and
RoomVerb have been optimized by 2.3x to 4.4x
on Wii U.

230% to 440% performance increase. (this is for porting games from ps360 using the wwise middleware, so they are using the cpu and not the audio dsp.)

http://www.audiokine...news/227-2012-2

broken code for the optimizations. The in order pipelines were common place for anyone coding for embbed system/consoles or mobiles. The complains were mostly due to having to deal with the PPU to work anything on an SPU. You seem to be throwing things around that you don't understand. That is all Im going to say.

[Jeremygts]

It is right now but that might not be the case for long. Nintendo has been pretty clever in getting the jump on the competition like this, but AAA titles can take years to develop well. THQ might miss out for a year, but the truth is that the Wii U is something of a gamble, and nobody knows where Nintendo will be in 2014. I can think of another console that launched a year before the competition, did very well for a bit and then died, taking the whole hardware division of its parent company with it.

They died because of the Saturn that failed, and all the addon hardware for the Genesis to keep it afloat against the SNES.
When they decided to cut support fot the Satun after only 3-4 years and decide to make the dreamcast no 3rd party developers wanted to work with them. Sega died because of poor communication between the East an West aka (sega of japan and sega of america..) To think they died because they launched a year early is just crazy.

[3Dude]

broken code for the optimizations. The in order pipelines were common place for anyone coding for embbed system/consoles or mobiles. The complains were mostly due to having to deal with the PPU to work anything on an SPU. You seem to be throwing things around that you don't understand. That is all Im going to say.

Ha ha thats funny, since the 360 (which Im talking about) has three complete cores and its the ps3 that has the ppu and spu's. The xbox 360 WHICH IM TALKING ABOUT, HAS NO PPU OR SPU's. ANd no, embedded/mobiles do NOT commonly have in order cpu's, they are rapidly switching to the benefits of OoO, and were a non issue back when the 360/ps3 debuted, so why are you even bringing them up? And what do they have to do with ANYTHING here? it is incredibly obsolete, even when the 360/ps3 launched, even the wii was out of order, lol.

On top of that, Shin en's C engine, has never ran on a 360 or ps3, so uh.what are you talking about them having trouble with whatever nonsense you couldnt properly express because you had to be incredibly vauge because you dont actually know any details?

Im pretty sure EVERYONE can tell now. What did you say?

'You seem to be throwing things around that you don't understand'.

Although, thats not all Im going to say. Here, Ill help educate you so you arent throwing around buzzwords in poorly formed sentences that dont make anysense.


Have some official IBM cell broadband c++ language extensions documentation
https://www-01.ibm.c...or_CBEA_2.6.pdf

Oh, yeah, that wont be much help to you without this.

http://www.cis.upenn...res/12_xbox.pdf

There you go, now maybe you can avoid embarrassing mistakes like not being able to tell the difference between parts that are in a 360 and parts that are in a ps3 when you are trying to tell someone else they dont know what they are talking about.

Edited by 3Dude, 28 November 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Auzzie Wingman]

Can I change my name to Popcorn Muncher?

It seems appropriate.

[Socalmuscle]

Can I change my name to Popcorn Muncher?

It seems appropriate.

+1