192 replies to this topic

[Zinix]

Believing in a god is delusional. It's the simple reality that many refuse to accept.

Some may call the above statement disrespectful to one's beliefs and yet if I legitimately believed in the Force (Star Wars) or that I was a Super Saiyan I'd be called insane and delusional. How is believing in a god any different from this?

People's irrational fear of death and the unknown drives them to be delusional to the extent of believing in mystical beings without any evidence.

This is something I wanted to say, but I wanted to be nice.

[Mitch]

Believing in god is the simple reality that many accept.

There I fixed it for you..

[Dragon]

There I fixed it for you..

*sits down and prepares popcorn*

[CUD]

There I fixed it for you..

What kind of a reality is it where you believe in things that don't exist? If you can't give me proof of something's existence how can you tell me that it does exist and expect me to believe you?

Without sufficient evidence believing in a god is delusional and that's all it ever will be.

Lets go with the hypothetical situation that I believe in a giant invisible turtle that follows me around granting me wishes. You cannot see the turtle, neither can I, but I tell you that I believe it is there. You have no reason to believe it exists other than me telling you this.
Can you honestly not call me delusional for believing such a thing?

[Mitch]

What kind of a reality is it where you believe in things that don't exist?

Dont ask me..... ask all the people who believe in the big bang


I believe in God... and if you need actual proof that hes out there how about the fact that you exist, and how complex you are and and how complex this planet is and how it was perfectly designed... not some random accident... not something that just happend

[CUD]

Dont ask me..... ask all the people who believe in the big bang


I believe in God... and if you need actual proof that hes out there how about the fact that you exist, and how complex you are and and how complex this planet is and how it was perfectly designed... not some random accident... not something that just happend

The big bang is a theory that tries to explain the origins of the universe with evidence whereas those that believe in god just say "it's there because god put it there" without attempting to discover the origins of the universe they'll blindly believe they already know it.

What you provided is not proof, it's just your belief. There is no need for anyone to disprove god, what needs to be done is the proving of god's existence.

[Mitch]

The big bang is a theory that tries to explain the origins of the universe with evidence whereas those that believe in god just say "it's there because god put it there" without attempting to discover the origins of the universe they'll blindly believe they already know it.

So what it really comes down to is someone attempting to discover the origins?

Because those scientists have no actual answers..... but you blindly believe them????


How about this.. I tell you I am on a scientific quest to prove God exists, then according to your thinking; that alone should be enough for you to believe God exists

[Zinix]

So what it really comes down to is someone attempting to discover the origins?

Because those scientists have no actual answers..... but you blindly believe them????


How about this.. I tell you I am on a scientific quest to prove God exists, then according to your thinking; that alone should be enough for you to believe God exists

Yet you believe in this all powerful mythical being because someone else tells you too. People have no actual answers... a 'God' truly exists, but you blindly believe them????

See, I could use the exact same argument and make it sound just as ridiculous as you did. You're just grasping for straws right now. How is someone suppose to take you seriously when you go around twisting what they said?

It's illogical for something so complex as the human anatomy to magically appear. Scientists can actually back up what they said with scientific evidence and experiments proving their thesis correct.

EDIT;
Scratch the DVD part, my browser is acting up.

Edited by Zinix, 13 December 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Xiombarg]

So what it really comes down to is someone attempting to discover the origins?

Because those scientists have no actual answers..... but you blindly believe them????


How about this.. I tell you I am on a scientific quest to prove God exists, then according to your thinking; that alone should be enough for you to believe God exists

The problem is that scientists must make a scientific guess then test that guess or find evidence for it. So far, there is enough evidence to assume that the Big Bang Theory has some truth to it through scientific testing. There are sceintific studies based on the redshift of stars and the constant expansion of the known universe. Anything else I may attempt or try to say is pretty much beyond any of us unless there is a physicist here. For Christian origins, there is little scientific testing and it proves to be extremely difficult to try any testing. For god, you are searching for something that cannot be found though human means or devices and has so many exceptions. To credit a god, you have to throw away forms of rationalistic and empiricist logic, which typically leaves you with an assumption, circular logic, or backwards logic.

[Dan]

So what it really comes down to is someone attempting to discover the origins?

That is what science is. It is the reason you understand how gravity works, what is beyond our tiny realm of existence that is earth, and the particles you're made of. Are you asking that science, that not even ten years ago finished the Human Genome Project, to explain right now the origins of the universe? You would very likely not be reading this on your monitor if all humans subjected themselves to the explanation that 'God did everything.'

Anyway, religion started as a way to attempt to explain how the universe worked. e.g. the sun was charted in a chariot across the sky. It's just a primitive way of explaining things, and it stuck with humans through memetics.

Because those scientists have no actual answers..... but you blindly believe them????

You blindly believe a God created the universe and instantly disregard probable explanations to the contrary. I can tell this from your belief that the human body couldn't exist because it is so complicated. That it couldn't appear 'randomly.' Maybe this is new to you, but natural selection is the antithesis of random. How can you accuse of blind 'belief' when you yourself practice it.

How about this.. I tell you I am on a scientific quest to prove God exists, then according to your thinking; that alone should be enough for you to believe God exists

Answer CUD's invisible turtle question.

Edited by Dan, 13 December 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[Zinix]

If God is so perfect, then why did he create something so imperfect allowing pain, suffering and daily atrocities?

Answer that.

[Dragon]

This thread has done exactly what I thought it would do. It's amazing what simple topics will do to a community...

[Dan]

The popcorn burnt. :<

[Mitch]

This thread has done exactly what I thought it would do. It's amazing what simple topics will do to a community...

You mean let have discussion/mild debate that isnt related to "How do I turn on my Wii U"

The problem is that scientists must make a scientific guess then test that guess or find evidence for it. So far, there is enough evidence to assume that the Big Bang Theory has some truth to it through scientific testing.

Exactly... assume.... You know what happens when you make assumptions?

(It makes an ass out of u and mumptions )

It's illogical for something so complex as the human anatomy to magically appear. Scientists can actually back up what they said with scientific evidence and experiments proving their thesis correct.

Well its also illogical for something as complex as the big bang to just magically happen... so you can keep pointing this back to me and saying "You have no scientific proof"... but once again I never said I had any scientific proof... but if i am going to believe in something i cant prove scientifically then it certainly isnt going to believe that there was an explosion that came from nowhere and created everything






The big bang theory is like taking the parts of a watch, placing them in a box, vigorously shaking the box and expecting to open it and find a perfectly working Rolex....

Edited by Mitch13pavel, 13 December 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Dragon]

You mean let have discussion/mild debate that isnt related to "How do I turn on my Wii U"

No.... But I do want to know how to turn my Wii U off.

[Dan]

The big bang theory is like taking the parts of a watch, placing them in a box, vigorously shaking the box and expecting to open it and find a perfectly working Rolex....

The parable you're trying to relay deals with natural selection, if I remember correctly. Your example insinuates there are parts to begin with, contradicting your previous statements.

And now we're back to 'how then was a god, incredibly more complex than a watch, able to just appear?'

Edited by Dan, 13 December 2012 - 11:13 PM.

[Xiombarg]

Exactly... assume.... You know what happens when you make assumptions?

Perhaps you would rather me say 'educated guess'?
As of now, I've been supplying some evidence why the big bang may have happened (even if I agree with the multiverse theory instead), but there is yet to be any evidence of a god. When you refer to the universe as a perfect place with order and etc, that really isn't so. Most of the universe is on it's way to entropy/heat death and the laws of physics aren't 100% true. There is much chaos spread throughout the universe and 99% of the universe is deadly to human beings. Our own galaxy is on its way to crash into the Andromeda Galaxy and the Earth shall be destroyed in billions of years.
There are too many inconsistencies in the universe for it to be considered perfect.

But also when you say the big bang magically happened, the big bang was nothing more than a sudden expansion of energy. It didn't do anything complex nor does it have any current significant meaning. Scientists are focusing on what happened before the big bang or different theories on what happened. The big bang has no real relation to god in the end anyway, so I fail to see why this point is even being argued.
If you are against random evolution/natural selection, perhaps you might want to think again when it comes to germs and viruses. Those microorganisms evolve when certain parts of their makeup changes, causing them to be more deadly or immune to current human treatments. Because these microorganisms reproduce so often and quickly, there are bound to be mutations, and these mutations are what we call evolution.

[Mitch]

As of now, I've been supplying some evidence why the big bang may have happened (even if I agree with the multiverse theory instead), but there is yet to be any evidence of a god. When you refer to the universe as a perfect place with order and etc, that really isn't so. Most of the universe is on it's way to entropy/heat death and the laws of physics aren't 100% true. There is much chaos spread throughout the universe and 99% of the universe is deadly to human beings.

I didnt say the universe was perfect for life... I said this planet, because of how perfect it is to sustain human life... and the fact that more than 99% of the rest of the universe is deadly to humans should show you how this couldnt be an accident and that it must have had some form of design and purpose

[Xiombarg]

I didnt say the universe was perfect for life... I said this planet, because of how perfect it is to sustain human life... and the fact that more than 99% of the rest of the universe is deadly to humans should show you how this couldnt be an accident and that it must have had some form of design and purpose

This is the same sort of logic that can be flipped around. This could mean the universe truly is a chaotic place, and only through luck has life come through on earth only to exist for a miniscule amount of time before it is once again consumed by chaos.
But now I am starting to sound like I am aligned to chaos gods, when I prefer to say I am aligned with the concept of chaos itself.
By the way, I am not saying there isn't a god, I'm just arguing because it's fun.

[Mitch]

This is the same sort of logic that can be flipped around. This could mean the universe truly is a chaotic place, and only through luck has life come through on earth only to exist for a miniscule amount of time before it is once again consumed by chaos.
But now I am starting to sound like I am aligned to chaos gods, when I prefer to say I am aligned with the concept of chaos itself.
By the way, I am not saying there isn't a god, I'm just arguing because it's fun.

That sounds like an awfully depressing life my friend... one with no hope.. or purpose..or meaning... and at the end of that purposeless life you just die and nothing else happens... we are all just a pile of $#!T that the universe decided to crap out one day only to be destroyed... And to believe all that without it even being proven...


If you are going to believe something that hasnt been "scientifically" proven... why not choose the one with hope and purpose and has a happy ending...

In the grand scheme of things... if you are right then it doesnt really matter.... but if i am right then your're screwed... from your perspective wouldnt it be better to be safe rather than sorry?