314 replies to this topic

[GAMER1984]

Yeah, im pretty pleased with the little bugger.
I just never understood how people inherently understood there were multiple entries in every processor line... i3's<i5's<i7's... Nobody sees an i7 and goes 'lol i3'.

Yet the 750 line was always immediately LOL gamecube/wii! As if there was only ever one processor in the 750 family.

Because of the espresso guy years ago that said it was 3 Broadway's tied together more cache... Then marcan comes and says multiple times same thing. People who have guesses should STFU and stop misleading people.

Edited by GAMER1984, 15 February 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[3Dude]

Because of the espresso guy years ago that said it was 3 Broadway's tied together more cache... Then marcan comes and says multiple times same thing. People who have guesses should STFU and stop misleading people.

Marcan has said fx/gx multiple times. He said 3 broadways tied together after being ignored in multiple tweets by people constantly tweeting obviously wanting a fulfilled confirmation bias.

One of the largest, most obvious differences of fx over cx is its increased cache.

Other improvements, like expanded width of internal data paths, additional cache buffers, parity protection on internal cache arrays, and additional memory mapping registers.... there are also 256-bit cache lines instead of 64-bit, in addition to improved logic.... Not something 'espresso guy' would be able to identify. But marcan probably did... Which is probably why he also keeps bringing up fx.

In fact, one of the most significant differences of gx over fx is its twice as large cache of 1Mb...

Heres what mark shafer had to say.

'The integrated 1 MB of L2 cache operates at the processor's core frequency, providing minimal latency for instruction fetch operations and data load operations that hit in the L2 cache. The larger size of the internal L2, twice that available on the 750FX, provides more on-chip memory storage for performance-critical application code and data, and may provide a significant performance improvement, due to the size alone. In addition, the L1 data cache path to the Bus Interface Unit (BIU) and the L2 cache reload path to the L1 data cache are 256 bits wide. With these wide data paths, cache line data bursts can be read from or written to the cache array in a single cycle, reducing cache contention between the BIU and the load-store unit. With 1 MB of low-latency integrated L2 cache, the 750GX is designed to reduce the overall system cost and power by eliminating the need for external L3 memory arrays and lowering the board space requirements....'

and one of wii u's core has 2x the cache of gx...

Edited by 3Dude, 15 February 2013 - 07:58 AM.

[routerbad]

a lot more cache/core, it no doubt has additional and more modern instructions. I can't help but wonder if they are using a stronger FPU or have updated the SIMD logic at all.

[Scumbag]

So how powerful is the CPU compared to 360, more or less and in what ways? A basic response please lol

[routerbad]

3Dude,

What are the chances this is based on the PPC476FP? I think that may have already been speculated before we had the die, but it fits quite well and looks like it would pack quite a punch.

[3Dude]

So how powerful is the CPU compared to 360, more or less and in what ways? A basic response please lol

More. General purpose, drhystonexs... Branch code ai etc much more.

Instructions per clock way way more.
Cycles per second, less than half.

Simd and flops... Without the xmv, its looking weaker.... however its apparantly enough to run high end flop/simd demanding 360 optimized code, apparantly without documentation and in depth manufacturer support.

So how powerful is the CPU compared to 360, more or less and in what ways? A basic response please lol

More. General purpose, drhystonexs... Branch code ai etc much more.

Instructions per clock way way more.
Cycles per second, less than half.

Simd and flops... Without the xmv, its looking weaker.... however its apparantly enough to run high end flop/simd demanding 360 optimized code, apparantly without documentation and in depth manufacturer support.

[Pjsprojects]

I understand a ltd amount of this stuff but three times the power of a 360 overall IF the devs no how to code the hardware correctly,but seeing as Nintendo are keeping silent about exact hardware spec its not easy for the devs and so third party games will struggle unless the devs know there stuff.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if my overview thoughts are way off lol.

[3Dude]

3Dude,
What are the chances this is based on the PPC476FP? I think that may have already been speculated before we had the die, but it fits quite well and looks like it would pack quite a punch.

not as likely imo. its definately looking and acting like a 750 series. Now more than ever since we can see it. I do see how the 476fp would fit many of the requirements... Though i think it would be even smaller than espresso if it were.

Espresso needed to be compatable with broadway/gekko for bc, something that can very easily be done to any cx or later vanilla member of the 750 family... But would be considerably more difficult with the 476.

Edited by 3Dude, 15 February 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[GAMER1984]

Marcan has said fx/gx multiple times. He said 3 broadways tied together after being ignored in multiple tweets by people constantly tweeting obviously wanting a fulfilled confirmation bias.
One of the largest, most obvious differences of fx over cx is its increased cache.
Other improvements, like expanded width of internal data paths, additional cache buffers, parity protection on internal cache arrays, and additional memory mapping registers.... there are also 256-bit cache lines instead of 64-bit, in addition to improved logic.... Not something 'espresso guy' would be able to identify. But marcan probably did... Which is probably why he also keeps bringing up fx.
In fact, one of the most significant differences of gx over fx is its twice as large cache of 1Mb...
Heres what mark shafer had to say.
'The integrated 1 MB of L2 cache operates at the processor's core frequency, providing minimal latency for instruction fetch operations and data load operations that hit in the L2 cache. The larger size of the internal L2, twice that available on the 750FX, provides more on-chip memory storage for performance-critical application code and data, and may provide a significant performance improvement, due to the size alone. In addition, the L1 data cache path to the Bus Interface Unit (BIU) and the L2 cache reload path to the L1 data cache are 256 bits wide. With these wide data paths, cache line data bursts can be read from or written to the cache array in a single cycle, reducing cache contention between the BIU and the load-store unit. With 1 MB of low-latency integrated L2 cache, the 750GX is designed to reduce the overall system cost and power by eliminating the need for external L3 memory arrays and lowering the board space requirements....'
and one of wii u's core has 2x the cache of gx...

Yeah but even the so called "official" leaked specs everyone is going by says 3 enhanced Broadway's..... Which makes me believe no one knows what's inside this machine. I believe that's the way Nintendo are designing their console now. You get what they tell you anything else won't be recognized or known. We all should just quit and enjoy the games.

[3Dude]

Yeah but even the so called "official" leaked specs everyone is going by says 3 enhanced Broadway's..... Which makes me believe no one knows what's inside this machine. I believe that's the way Nintendo are designing their console now. You get what they tell you anything else won't be recognized or known. We all should just quit and enjoy the games.

broadway enhanced.

Gekko/broadway had special extentions no other vanilla 750 had (it was dedicated to gaming) in order for a 750fx to have bc (and be better suited to a gaming machine) it would require those 'broadway enhancements'.

The problem isnt the raw information, its confirmation bias, attempting to twist the information to fit a pre established narrative.

Edited by 3Dude, 15 February 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[routerbad]

I understand a ltd amount of this stuff but three times the power of a 360 overall IF the devs no how to code the hardware correctly,but seeing as Nintendo are keeping silent about exact hardware spec its not easy for the devs and so third party games will struggle unless the devs know there stuff.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if my overview thoughts are way off lol.

It still sports the same Power core instruction set, so games will run on the CPU, but should be optimized for an architecture that uses out of order instruction processing and has different FPU and SIMD characteristics than the PowerXCell PPE and Xenon cores. Those cores were designed specifically for floating point operations and were for all intents and purposes a modified PPC 970.

0% its definately a 750 series. Now more than ever since we can see it. I do see how the 476fp would fit many of the requirements... Though i think it would be even smaller than espresso if it were.

Espresso needed to be compatable with broadway for bc, something that can very easily be done to any cx or later vanilla member of the 750 family... But would be considerably more difficult with the 476.

Could they not have added the 750cl instructions to core0? It was pointed out that if it were a broadway core shrink it would be much bigger than it is, especially considering the increased cache. I would think it would be easier to add compatibility to a modern core rather than go through the process of shrinking a defunct core and adding instructions to it.

Edited by routerbad, 15 February 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[3Dude]

It still sports the same Power core instruction set, so games will run on the CPU, but should be optimized for an architecture that uses out of order instruction processing and has different FPU and SIMD characteristics than the PowerXCell PPE and Xenon cores. Those cores were designed specifically for floating point operations and were for all intents and purposes a modified PPC 970.
Could they not have added the 750cl instructions to core0?

Im sure they could have done something like that. But it really looks like they went with a 750 solution.

[routerbad]

Im sure they could have done something like that. But it really looks like they went with a 750 solution.

okay, its fun to speculate

[3Dude]

okay, its fun to speculate

Heh, if they had gone with the 476's they could had said it was blue gene technology instead of watson.

[routerbad]

Heh, if they had gone with the 476's they could had said it was blue gene technology instead of watson.

I think the Power 7 core makes even less sense.

[thunderspider]

considering the bear minimum "which intentinaly doesnt account for several 'unknown' factors" is 1.5x xbox360. most likly 3-5x 360 for the avridge ground up game, poor ports ar 1x-2x 1.5-2.5x for early next gen ports. that # should grow. also expect the lowest early power ceiling(the point where you start optimizing), but by far the most room to push more out through optimization, as compared to PS4 where i expect the opposite. and somewhere inbetween for the 720. id expect that to make onpar games look best on PS4 but the games that are well optimizes and pushed to the max be a tossup on all 3(still favores 720/PS4).

But so, how much the ps4 and new xbox will be better? the difference can be a wii vs 360/ps3? a psone vs n64? a dreamcast vs ps2, a dreamcast vs gamecube or xbox, or ps2 vs xbox.. i mean, where wii u can fit in a comparison like these? Is there any sure about the other specs?

[routerbad]

But so, how much the ps4 and new xbox will be better? the difference can be a wii vs 360/ps3? a psone vs n64? a dreamcast vs ps2, a dreamcast vs gamecube or xbox, or ps2 vs xbox.. i mean, where wii u can fit in a comparison like these? Is there any sure about the other specs?

They're better specwise, but not much. How that will translate into games, we won't know until we know.

[tboss]

But so, how much the ps4 and new xbox will be better? the difference can be a wii vs 360/ps3? a psone vs n64? a dreamcast vs ps2, a dreamcast vs gamecube or xbox, or ps2 vs xbox.. i mean, where wii u can fit in a comparison like these? Is there any sure about the other specs?

i currently expect GC to xbox comparison, GC on avridge game were worse than xbox games, and teh GC was weaker, but the gamecube was capable, if optimized well enough, to push things outside of the xbox capabilities. teh wiiU seems to follow a similar rought, but we dont know the details so it may or maynot have that high 'optimized' ceiling but is expected to have the low generic(minimul optimization) ceiling, which seems to be higher than the xbox optimized ceiling

[tboss]

... not very knoligable on each of the cores =/. im guessing its not a fx or cancled vx/wx whaterver it was called. this one is probly a newly designed chip that doesnt link greatly to the other chips beyond the standered 750 series.

can anyone confirm if chip 0 or 2 is a braodway/upgraded broadway chip? or reltibly similar? or can run as a gimped version of one.

how much do developers know of the seperate catches and differences between teh core, or other differences between cores? asking because it could be a cause of weakness to xbox360 ports(assuming all its cores are identical) the worst optimized core can bring the whole system down if true.

at this point i think each has there own spacfic purpose. core 1(middle) dedicated to mass simple operations, such as controlling the pikmin in that upcoming game. core 0 and/or 2 dedicated to very complexe but reletibly few code, so handling AI, physics, and similar. physics i have run by the core 1 identifiying when something happened, then core 0 or 2 actualy doing the math. is there any weight to this theory?

[Plutonas]

maybe because 360 cores are "in order execution" and they force the wii U cores to work that way, while they are "out of order execution" be able perform? Just a guess.