314 replies to this topic

[routerbad]

... not very knoligable on each of the cores =/. im guessing its not a fx or cancled vx/wx whaterver it was called. this one is probly a newly designed chip that doesnt link greatly to the other chips beyond the standered 750 series.

can anyone confirm if chip 0 or 2 is a braodway/upgraded broadway chip? or reltibly similar? or can run as a gimped version of one.

how much do developers know of the seperate catches and differences between teh core, or other differences between cores? asking because it could be a cause of weakness to xbox360 ports(assuming all its cores are identical) the worst optimized core can bring the whole system down if true.

at this point i think each has there own spacfic purpose. core 1(middle) dedicated to mass simple operations, such as controlling the pikmin in that upcoming game. core 0 and/or 2 dedicated to very complexe but reletibly few code, so handling AI, physics, and similar. physics i have run by the core 1 identifiying when something happened, then core 0 or 2 actualy doing the math. is there any weight to this theory?

Only core 0 is in use in Wii mode, the clock is lowered and much of the cache is locked.

[thunderspider]

Well, so the people that thinks of a diference like the seventh gen, have a serious chance to be screwed? And about those that think can be even bigger than this gen?

[3Dude]

maybe because 360 cores are "in order execution" and they force the wii U cores to work that way, while they are "out of order execution" be able perform? Just a guess.

Well no, OoO does its thing on its own as needed, you dont need to really worry about it being forced to run in order because of the code. In that regaurd you dont need to optimize code for OoO execution.

[3Dude]

Well, so the people that thinks of a diference like the seventh gen, have a serious chance to be screwed? And about those that think can be even bigger than this gen?

I think those people are going to be super dissapointed and end up having meltdowns because of the different direction ms and possibly sony appear to be taking..

[thunderspider]

I think those people are going to be super dissapointed and end up having meltdowns because of the different direction ms and possibly sony appear to be taking..

If it happens to be like sixth gen, it will be funny

[Plutonas]

then why the limitations in the fps... Maybe they didnt optimised the apropriate core ? just a guess.

[Scumbag]

then why the limitations in the fps... Maybe they didnt optimised the apropriate core ? just a guess.

Launch games on Wii U are not using finalised hardware with all the tools available for developers. Look at what Criterion achieved with finalised hardware, they said the same thing about other devs not having all the tools etc for launch.

It makes sense as Need for Speed Most Wanted having much better graphics than PS360 + proves Wii U's untapped potential.

[Plutonas]

and he also said that wii U can do much more, but thats the entry level they succeeded.

[Dragon]

Interesting... So the CPU can do more than what the raw specs tell us?

[3Dude]

then why the limitations in the fps... Maybe they didnt optimised the apropriate core ? just a guess.

Well, just because OoO doesnt need to have special optimized code to function as an OoO processor, doesnt mean that thats all there is to it.

The code was specially optimized for an in order process, meaning it had a lot of special 'flags' to be processed to ensure the code was fetched, executed, and retired in the proper order, taking advantadge of a low ipc high cps (cycles per second) design.

When taken to a OoO unit however all those flags and special instructions become unnecessary things to process... and yet are processed nonetheless (because port teams dont know how to actually change low level engine coding).

What you have is a huge shism between instructions decoded and instructions retired. It means you are performing a LOT of unneeded instructions and wasting a lot of resources.

Its really easy to identify on x86 with vtune the retired tool... and use it in conjuction with the cpi tool (clocks per instruction) to see spikes in instruction latency. (though this is not always indictive of bad performance...)

Because cpu's can execute MANY more instructions than just the ones retired (retired instructions are considered 'needed' instructions with the vtune retired tool), typically this can often be (but not always) signs of trouble code... But in dedicated gaming systems, and the nature of game software, many of these instructions are reused over and over and over again, without ever being retired, so its not necessarily instructions retired that shows your main performance story anymore. It may be more prudent to consider instructions executed over retired... For example, broadway can only retire 2 instructions per clock, but it can fetch 4, and execute 6.

Edited by 3Dude, 17 February 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Plutonas]

it proves to be an E6760 that nobody accepts easily, they dont want to!!.. lol look at this

http://www.nintendo....ch-specs/ it says : AMD Radeon™-based High Definition GPU

and look at this.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Radeon_R700 and this http://en.wikipedia....en_(GPU_family) Both are rv700 and r800 (4xxx gpu and 5xxx gpus) They are NOT AMD branded, it is ATI branded (amd bought ATI and the AMD gpus start from 6xxx series!!) http://en.wikipedia....ds_(GPU_family)

I pointed that to gaf, because they all speak for rv7.... They trolled me in IGN forums, they dont want to listen about e6760, they want to believe that wii U does not have the dx11 hardware features!!! lol funny but true.

that alone proves that wii U is using AMD radeon based gpu (As nintendo states) technology, that means 6xxx series and up. So it may not be 320 spus, but 480 instead!

Nobody can say that wii U uses rv700 chip, because it conflicts with the branding... it should be ATI radeon rv7 instead. Its not even r800 (5xxx gpu) because it is also ATI branding.

Even if AMD bought ATI and they are one company... AMD keeps the ATI branding for 4xxx and 5xxx gpus http://www.amd.com/u...on-hd-5000.aspx

but its not accepted by the reviewers.. hmmmm

Edited by Orion, 19 February 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[Wonder Blue]

i miss the old days when console's power was measured with bits and we all gamers could understand it

[routerbad]

it proves to be an E6760 that nobody accepts easily, they dont want to!!.. lol look at this

http://www.nintendo....ch-specs/ it says : AMD Radeon™-based High Definition GPU

and look at this.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Radeon_R700 and this http://en.wikipedia....en_(GPU_family) Both are rv700 and r800 (4xxx gpu and 5xxx gpus) They are NOT AMD branded, it is ATI branded (amd bought ATI and the AMD gpus start from 6xxx series!!) http://en.wikipedia....ds_(GPU_family)

I pointed that to gaf, because they all speak for rv7.... They trolled me in IGN forums, they dont want to listen about e6760, they want to believe that wii U does not have the dx11 hardware features!!! lol funny but true.

that alone proves that wii U is using AMD radeon based gpu (As nintendo states) technology, that means 6xxx series and up. So it may not be 320 spus, but 480 instead!

Nobody can say that wii U uses rv700 chip, because it conflicts with the branding... it should be ATI radeon rv7 instead. Its not even r800 (5xxx gpu) because it is also ATI branding.

Even if AMD bought ATI and they are one company... AMD keeps the ATI branding for 4xxx and 5xxx gpus http://www.amd.com/u...on-hd-5000.aspx

but its not accepted by the reviewers.. hmmmm

It is true they didn't start branding the GPU's with AMD until the 6000Series, but I would assume any GPU produced from that time forward would carry AMD branding regardless of the base family from which its derived. I believe it is an e6760 as well, though if it were they have removed one of the SIMD engines. the e6760 has 6 SIMD engines, Latte has 4 (2 SIMD cores = 1 SIMD engine @ 80ALU/engine). Thats just the programmable shader piece. You also have a crapton of logic all over that GPU that could be fixed shaders, asymmetric shaders, who knows!

Also, it would still be 320 ALU's even if they went with e6760 SIMD engines, because there are two missing.

[Plutonas]

thats why I gave u the last link... they seperate them to AMD and ATI (5xxx and backwrds)

[routerbad]

thats why I gave u the last link... they seperate them to AMD and ATI (5xxx and backwrds)

Interesting. I've said multiple times here that i think that its the e6760. It fits the process, the power profile, the performance profile, everything. Because no one has a die shot of a e6760 we can't know for sure, but it's pretty clear none of the r700 series cards really fit the bill.

[tboss]

i believe custom e6760. but biggest hint is AND TOLD US IT WAS CUSTOM E6760. now to wait for a game with noticeable tesselation

[Plutonas]

that changes alot of info to.. because the leaked info from VGleaks was a copy paste from rv7xx chipset. But that is ok, time will tell, the certainty is, that wii U gpu havent figured out yet what trully is and can do, and a 30% of it is uknown, cannot be translated yet and gaf, cant detect were the ROPS are.

Edited by Orion, 20 February 2013 - 04:41 AM.

[ElderKnight77]

It is true they didn't start branding the GPU's with AMD until the 6000Series, but I would assume any GPU produced from that time forward would carry AMD branding regardless of the base family from which its derived. I believe it is an e6760 as well, though if it were they have removed one of the SIMD engines. the e6760 has 6 SIMD engines, Latte has 4 (2 SIMD cores = 1 SIMD engine @ 80ALU/engine). Thats just the programmable shader piece. You also have a crapton of logic all over that GPU that could be fixed shaders, asymmetric shaders, who knows!

Also, it would still be 320 ALU's even if they went with e6760 SIMD engines, because there are two missing.

It's almost blatantly obvious that it isn't based on the RV7xx series and that Latte uses the e6760 as it's baseline foundation. This might help a bit:http://www.nintengen.com/2012/07/speculation-wii-us-gpu-based-on-amd.html
AFAIK after seeing the die shots; Latte cannot be based on the RV7xxx series.

[MorbidGod]

I am pleasantly surprised that even more edram is inside the GPU, but is what is the slower kind mentioned above 4mb or the 32mb?

So I gather the GPU is a lot more capable than initial thoughts. Where exactly does this put Wii U's GPU compared to the rumoured AMD 7xxx series in Orbis?

The AMD APU is meant to be in mid range PC's, and Nintendo started with what was meant to be high end at it's time. I still expect the Wii U to be the least powerful, but close enough to handle all the same engines as the other consoles.

But the Wii U might also be the PS3 of this generation in terms of sales.

[binx]

Why do we know more about the ps4 than the Wii U at this point?! By time they produce a good looking game I will have the next consoles from xbox and PS and all this spec stuff will be moot.