47 replies to this topic

[MatrixChicken]

I didn't realise ridicule was allowed in the rules, I remember reading that rule back when it was wii2boards and thinking it was weird but okay.
Did someone remove it?

 

I have no idea... But it's obvious that nobody heeds the rule...

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Oooookay. Prepare to possibly be offended.

 

So, when I first joined this site, everybody seemed pretty cool. No overreacting, no hating, no (well, not much) immaturity... Of course, that could just be because I didn't pay as much attention back then as I do now.

Then chat got removed. I don't know what happened, as I wasn't really a huge part of the whole chat thing, but people were mad. So many problems happened in the course of a few months. Feld0 basically abandoned the place, all the other mods and admins disappeared, the whole SpamBot war, the forums breaking as a result of Poniverse... One thing led to another until everybody started hating on Feld0. It didn't stop at Feld0, though. Oh, no. Nintendo haters started to appear. The Nintendo lovers would bash on them (me included, sorry D:), and it all eventually led to everybody constantly being sarcastic and insulting each other for no reason. I like to think that I kept myself above it all, but I spouted my share of sarcasm, too. ...Anyways... Then some users (I won't name any names) started to abuse their ability to work around the rules and filters of the site. Signatures were filled with insults (indirect, I'll give you that, but insults) directed at users, Feld0, and the state of the whole forums alike.

 

So that's basically where things stand today, or that's how I see it...

 

As for how we can fix it, I have no idea, other than essentially performing a hard reset on the site, erasing all members, posts, everything, and then letting the userbase slowly fill back up with those of us that still want to be a part of the site. It's a crazy idea, but it's really the only way to clear out all the filth that exists here.

 

Of course, there would have to be a new set of RULES to keep this ordeal from repeating itself. No swearing (white swearing could be tolerated, but come on, this is a website for discussing a Nintendo console. Kids are bound to show up.), no innuendo, no hating/insulting (of course, arguing would have to be allowed; the whole purpose of the forums is kind of to discuss and debate things about the Wii U), etc. And we, the users, would have to have the responsibility of reporting any posts/members that broke these rules.

 

But ultimately, we have to stop hating each other. We'll never get anywhere if the whole of the forums is pitted against itself in a battle of insults and superiority. Over on the MLP Forums (please don't hate me for mentioning its name here), people rarely have a real disliking for each other. Of course there's some playful banter and teasing between members, but not so much outright and sincere hostility as there is here. It could just be that there's so many members there that I just don't notice it, I suppose, but that doesn't change the fact that these types of thing do happen here.

 

I know you said not to say "let's ban so and so", but there are a few troublemakers here, and I'm not saying they need to be banned, but they should be at least warned. Possibly punished in some way. They just need to be told that if they don't get their act together, there will be blood consequences.

 

Anyways, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

Just so you know matrix, not all of the following is directed at you/your comment

I know I kept saying let's not talk about chat, but it seems as though the subject is unavoidable here.

Perhaps the reason all this "silliness" started appearing when chat went down, is because chat is a great place to let all that silliness go. Once that outlet is gone, people need to find another and, well I think the most obvious next place to do so is the actual forums.

Also the drama and hating thing is a losing battle.

Every forum I've gone to has this ridiculous zero tolerance for drama. First of all, by having this ridiculous expectation. Therefore when a little bit of drama happens, people freak out and start complaining, etc. and all this does is serve to create more drama.

Second, why do people have such a stupid expectation? Why would you think that on the internet, it's quite possible for everyone to always just like each other and get along? The people on the internet are the exact same people you see in real life, and I'm sure if you look around in real life, you will see drama. The only difference is, on the internet, you have more time to think of your response, and that you don't have to be afraid of saying what you feel like saying. So of course the result is that you will still get drama.

I see forums almost as small political communities. You have the moderators, which are very much like parliament, as they often have their own head, the administrator, who essentially rules the land, and then you have the genereal populace, that is to say average users. You could even make the comparison of rich/famous people to power users, as they often have a small influence (slightly above the average user) on what happens around the place.

Now imagine if a political area stated kicking people out for annoying others. It would get ridiculous. Sure it might seem like you eventually get a perfectly city/county etc. but in reality, people will frequently be moving to the area, and some good people might have bad days and therefore you will have to constantly remove everyone.

More importantly, you will develop a reputation for being, essentially fascist, and people will grow to hate you. You become infamous, and essentially a joke (for example see: north Korea).

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have laws, or rules, that need to be enforced, but "Do not make anyone upset" I think you would agree is a ridiculous law, because it is impossible to achieve. You will fail, and every time you do, there will be more of drama, which causes the law to be broken , which causes more drama which- you get the point.

Now, I'm a member of MLP Forums. in fact, I'm even on your friends list there, Matrix (under another, unrelated name (I'm fairly convinced you don't know who :3)) and let me say, it might not be there yet but its governmental system is starting to become flawed (In fact, my experience with the system here is the best I've seen of the forums I've actively participated in). Things like the character limit are proof. It's a ridiculous rule with too many flaws to point out here, but I will say that the most obvious is the fact it puts a limit on free speech, and that's always gonna get people ticked. Also I've personally experienced the way moderators treat you for trying to argue a case involving character limit and (even when you're in the right) it's disgusting. Much like how the police would treat you for speaking out against some ridiculous rule in somewhere like China. Possibly worse. In fact that treatment is the main reason I haven't posted in more than half a year. What I'm getting at is that, stricter rules, than what we have now probably won't get us anywhere. at least not anywhere good.

This brings us to feld0.

Like I said, I'm a member at MLP Forums, and before I joined these forums I too thought feld0 was oh so amazing. But let's face the facts, he isn't do balls for this forums right now, and he should take the blame for that. Can you imagine if the Prime minister (or president) decided to just leave the country for SEVEN MONTHS? It's only because Mourn does such a good job, and maybe because a lot of users want to see this place succeed that this forum hasn't gone to total hell and anarchy.

I can't stress how important it is for a moderator to take interest in his forum. I've mentioned before, I was a part of DOA World forums. The admin there barely showed up, he would update the site, but left most of the moderation stuff up to his girlfriend (who he had made a mod (what a stupid idea)) and his girlfriend's good friend (who he had also made a mod ( again, stupid idea)).

That place was just (can't even finish sentence; no word in my vocabulary is strong enough to describe how bad it was)-

And ultimately, what I described above, about becoming infamous, was what happened to these forums. They became a joke to the DOA community, and rightfully so. They were sooooo "against" drama, that  they ended just creating a megacraptonne of it. It was so bad, that the official reason for my final ban on the place was because I was "arrogant". I attempted to talk to the admin outside of the site later on about this, and he was in complete denial, because he never saw any of this going on. He never did his job and kicked crappy mods, or overturned stupid things they'd done, and messed his site up in doing so.

In other words, feld0 need to either start caring, or fully hand this forum over to someone who does. I refuse to say that getting rid of the forums should be one of his options, because we already "live" here so to speak, and if he just kicks us all out because he has no interest? I think you could use that as an official definition of the word "dick".

 

Anyway, that's my rant for today (also just wanted to say that that rant is another reason that the character limit is not good. I can make several posts like that, but the on time I want to right a 5 word response, I'm not allowed? ugh).

tl;dr

Rea it. if you're participating in a discussion, you should be willing to read everyone's full opinions (obviously only directed at those who didn't read)

[Zinix]

Maybe if we all spam Feld0's email daily he'll come back and actually fix that annoying 404 ad that comes up when you create a thread or fix some of the other pestering features. 

[Xiombarg]

Maybe if we all spam Feld0's email daily he'll come back and actually fix that annoying 404 ad that comes up when you create a thread or fix some of the other pestering features. 

When I have a bit of time, either tomorrow, or this weekend, I'm going to try contacting someone to see if they have cpanel access.

[MatrixChicken]

*snip*

 

Hmmm... So I shouldn't expect people to get along? I guess it's true that it shouldn't be expected too much on the internet, but it seems like it could be a little bit better here in that respect than it is... BTW, what exactly is this "drama" of which you speak? "Do not make anyone upset" Is a silly law (well, it's a good law, but no one would keep it, so it would be useless), I'll give you that, but a law against direct insult or general hostility would be a good one to practice.

 

As for the political party analogy... Being an admin is just a tad different than being a president, I should think... I am in no way trying to advocate Feld0's absence (that was definitely a very, very bad thing of him to do), but I think we as a forum should be able to govern ourselves well enough to keep from falling to these depths.

 

I'll admit I hate the character limit on MLP Forums too (lol), but if it keeps out unneeded spam, I say it's worth it. They've improved it slightly, too... Lowered the main minimum to 100 and I think the media section (for fanart and the like) has a 50 character minimum.

 

I'm not saying the place needs to turn into some sort of fascist government or something like that, but if these "silly" laws need to be put in place to keep people from being... Well, silly, then maybe that's what needs to happen.

 

I hate to say it, but these forums probably will go down unless Feld0 hands it off to someone. He's fairly busy with MLP Forums and Poniverse as of now, and seeing as he never comes back here, I don't think he has much interest in it anymore. Maybe he just needs someone to talk to him and to get him to come take a look at what's happened here, but ultimately, I think he'll give up the site in favor of MLP Forums. It's a much bigger place than here, and, dare I say, more important in the long run.

 

What do you think we should do about this whole thing? I'd like to hear your thoughts. Also... Oh man... Who could you possibly be on MLP Forums... D: YOU MUST TELL ME xD

[Xiombarg]

I don't know if I should be considered the fall guy for the chat, but after the MLP chat was shut down, Feldo said time and time again that WUF chat will go eventually.

Before anyone moans about chat again, these are the things I had to deal with, being the only moderator and admin who actually participated in chat and tried to moderate it.

 

I am giving out examples, but don't name names.  I had to deal with members plotting together to troll others, making plans of spamming out certain sections with "fads", certain members creating their own social hierarchy on this site, members sexually harassing each other, members spreading out personal information, members actively trolling each other and linking offsite where there aren't rules, attempted and and threatened suicide, cybering, and private chats where members would constantly bait each other or break any rules.  There is only so much one person can do, and once that chat degenerated, it's hard to enforce any rules at all, when the userbase calls for a member's ban, but want them unbanned a week later.

Chat was almost dead before it was even shut down.  Certain users were even advocating it be shut down.

 

I am not opposed to chat in general, but there is no way I want to deal with that responsibility again.  IP chat costs money and would be the same thing as before.  In its nature, it is very hard to moderate, and chat mods wouldn't work.  Only admins had access to real bans, as super mods could only ban a user who was currently in chat.

 

Chats can help communities, but whenever someone suggests it, they tend to forget how difficult it can be to moderate and what problems might actually follow.

 

I'll admit I hate the character limit on MLP Forums too (lol), but if it keeps out unneeded spam, I say it's worth it. They've improved it slightly, too... Lowered the main minimum to 100 and I think the media section (for fanart and the like) has a 50 character minimum.

Before Feldo dedicated all his time to MLP, he was originally planning one or two final updates to this site.  A revamped warning system, a character limit, and a few other things.  You could sort of say he was planning on structuring it the same as MLPF.

In regards to when he was planning this, it was while we still had chat.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

1) Hmmm... So I shouldn't expect people to get along? I guess it's true that it shouldn't be expected too much on the internet, but it seems like it could be a little bit better here in that respect than it is... BTW, what exactly is this "drama" of which you speak? "Do not make anyone upset" Is a silly law (well, it's a good law, but no one would keep it, so it would be useless), I'll give you that, but a law against direct insult or general hostility would be a good one to practice.

 

2) As for the political party analogy... Being an admin is just a tad different than being a president, I should think... I am in no way trying to advocate Feld0's absence (that was definitely a very, very bad thing of him to do), but I think we as a forum should be able to govern ourselves well enough to keep from falling to these depths.

 

3) I'll admit I hate the character limit on MLP Forums too (lol), but if it keeps out unneeded spam, I say it's worth it. They've improved it slightly, too... Lowered the main minimum to 100 and I think the media section (for fanart and the like) has a 50 character minimum.

 

4) I'm not saying the place needs to turn into some sort of fascist government or something like that, but if these "silly" laws need to be put in place to keep people from being... Well, silly, then maybe that's what needs to happen.

 

5) I hate to say it, but these forums probably will go down unless Feld0 hands it off to someone. He's fairly busy with MLP Forums and Poniverse as of now, and seeing as he never comes back here, I don't think he has much interest in it anymore. Maybe he just needs someone to talk to him and to get him to come take a look at what's happened here, but ultimately, I think he'll give up the site in favor of MLP Forums. It's a much bigger place than here, and, dare I say, more important in the long run.

 

6) What do you think we should do about this whole thing? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

7) Also... Oh man... Who could you possibly be on MLP Forums... D: YOU MUST TELL ME xD

I've numbered you questions and numbered the corresponding answers

1) I feel like more people get along than don't get along on the forums, and I think that's all you can really hope for.

2) Admin and president are definitely different. It's probably a lot closer to being king, in that you can quite literally ALL the power. You don't have to worry about the tea party dicking up your plans and going against ever single thing you try to do.

3) Don't get me started on that character limit (EDIT: LOL Mourn got me started on it later XD)

I'll just say this; it's probably created more problems than it's fixed. So people don't post things like "cool" any more. That's great, but no one was really bothered by that anyway. But now you have constant complaints about it, and you have arguments and you have mods being huge dickwads about it. That's definitely bothering people.

4) I don't think people DO need to be kept from being silly, because if you stop people from being silly, they're going to feel suffocated. I say, as long as the silliness is kept away from the important discussions and conversation such as legit roleplays, and discussions about serious topics, then so what? People are silly in real life as well, we don't force them not to be because who cares?

5) If Feld0 shuts the forums down without even trying to give to someone else or something, he'll look like (and be) an even bigger dick than he's being now.

6) Well what do you mean by "this whole thing"?

7) Hmmm looks like there are no further questions here *cough*

I'll give you a hint: statuses

I don't know if I should be considered the fall guy for the chat, but after the MLP chat was shut down, Feldo said time and time again that WUF chat will go eventually.

Before anyone moans about chat again, these are the things I had to deal with, being the only moderator and admin who actually participated in chat and tried to moderate it.

 

I am giving out examples, but don't name names.  I had to deal with members plotting together to troll others, making plans of spamming out certain sections with "fads", certain members creating their own social hierarchy on this site, members sexually harassing each other, members spreading out personal information, members actively trolling each other and linking offsite where there aren't rules, attempted and and threatened suicide, cybering, and private chats where members would constantly bait each other or break any rules.  There is only so much one person can do, and once that chat degenerated, it's hard to enforce any rules at all, when the userbase calls for a member's ban, but want them unbanned a week later.

Chat was almost dead before it was even shut down.  Certain users were even advocating it be shut down.

 

I am not opposed to chat in general, but there is no way I want to deal with that responsibility again.  IP chat costs money and would be the same thing as before.  In its nature, it is very hard to moderate, and chat mods wouldn't work.  Only admins had access to real bans, as super mods could only ban a user who was currently in chat.

 

Chats can help communities, but whenever someone suggests it, they tend to forget how difficult it can be to moderate and what problems might actually follow.

 

Before Feldo dedicated all his time to MLP, he was originally planning one or two final updates to this site.  A revamped warning system, a character limit, and a few other things.  You could sort of say he was planning on structuring it the same as MLPF.

In regards to when he was planning this, it was while we still had chat.

 

Thanks for clarification Mourn. I wasn't here when chat was up so i don't know this stuff.

Plotting to troll the forums is definitely something I am against. Like I said before, being silly in chat or in a status is whatever, but on the boards, that's a different thing. Those discussions are meant for well thought out, proper comments, and they should stay that way.

However, social hierarchies will happen no matter what. I've already kind of created one in my head. It's something people will do naturally, and getting rid of chat won't prevent it.

Sexual harassment is another serious one, but something like that is also very easy to misinterpret, and sometimes (only sometimes) over-reacted to. I would have to see the discussions in question to judge (not asking you post them, just saying).

If members want to spread out their own personal info then, whatever, there's not much you can do about that and, once again, getting rid of chat won't stop people from doing it. If it's other people's info, that's a bit different. Of course that's a problem and there should be severe punishment for doing so without permission from the person who's info is being shared. However, the same thing apples where, if someone really wants to do it, they don't need chat to do it, and therefore getting rid of it isn't an immediate solution.

Linking offsite, once again can be done anywhere on the forums, and if someone clicks that link then they've taken that risk. If the link is to something inappropriate, then (once again) that's a different matter.

If people were seriously talking about committing suicide in the chat, that's actually a good thing. It gives us an opportunity to try and help that person either b talking them down from it, or (I'm not sure you can do this on the forums (somewhat tech noob)) tracing them and reporting to local police. It also means that that person has found a place where they're comfortable to talk about it, and if they talk about it 99% of the time that means they want you to help them, or they would just do it.

Cybering and private chats are sort of the same situation as harassment, I'd need to see it and know the history.

Maybe we just just have a couple moderators who are just practically always in chat that mod specifically or chat. It would help with seeing who's actually a dick and who's not, because I know for a fact hat sometimes things get taken out of context. I got in trouble on DOAW for "asking a 13 year to suck my dick". I can 100% assure that that is not how it sounds and wanted nothing of the sort (this is already a long post, so I won't go into details about just how not good that accusation is).

Finally;

Please

PLEASE

PLEASE

NEVER implement a character limit.

It is the STUPIDEST bucking thing. No chat I can live with. If a character limit is implemented. I will almost inevitably get in trouble. As I've mentioned before, it's why I haven't posted anything on MLPF for 7 months. I didn't even break the bucking rule. It creates 100 grey areas and punishes all for the few. I used to post things PAGES long on MLPF, so why should I have to have something that's supposed to "assure quality" attached to me like bucking shackles?

I don't fight a lot of things on forums, and have fought nothing on this forum so far, but I would fight every step of the way against that stupid frinking thing.

[Nollog]

xWydrAx, on 17 Nov 2013 - 8:20 PM, said:
Finally;
Please
PLEASE
PLEASE
NEVER implement a character limit.
It is the STUPIDEST bucking thing. No chat I can live with. If a character limit is implemented. I will almost inevitably get in trouble. As I've mentioned before, it's why I haven't posted anything on MLPF for 7 months. I didn't even break the bucking rule. It creates 100 grey areas and punishes all for the few. I used to post things PAGES long on MLPF, so why should I have to have something that's supposed to "assure quality" attached to me like bucking shackles?
I don't fight a lot of things on forums, and have fought nothing on this forum so far, but I would fight every step of the way against that stupid frinking thing.

IKR, it's so horsing stupid.
Either way, a limit of having to have more than x character, or having to have less than x characters.