76 replies to this topic

[Crispy Bacon]

My question still wasn't answered.



Does the specs prove that the PS4 and 720 will have a graphical leap large enough to cause Nintendo to lose third-party support?

Question is difficult to answer. Even though Wii U has been out for 2 months, we still don't have a full breakdown of the specs. What kind of GPU does it have? What custom features and advantages does it hold over current gen machines? What are the bells and whistles we can expect to see? In an earlier post, I pointed out that the Wii couldn't compare to the PS3/360 because of completely different architectures. It's apples and oranges. Now, however, these new machines should share some similar characteristics, even though Orbis and Durango will most likely have more brute power, cores, memory, etc.. Even so, if the architectures are similar, Wii U shouldn't run into too many issues when it comes to ports. Of course, this doesn't mean we'll get these games and it certainly doesn't mean that these games will run or look as good as their Orbis/Durango counterparts. It could be like comparing a PC game on low settings to a game that runs on high/ultra. The picture should become clearer when we see a AAA game built from the ground up for Wii U. I expect Retro to deliver something amazing from a graphical standpoint, assuming their game demands high-end visuals and details.

Edited by Crispy Bacon, 15 January 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[BlueBlur]

Question is difficult to answer. Even though Wii U has been out for 2 months, we still don't have a full breakdown of the specs. What kind of GPU does it have? What custom features and advantages does it hold over current gen machines? What are the bells and whistles we can expect to see? In an earlier post, I pointed out that the Wii couldn't compare to the PS3/360 because of completely different architectures. It's apples and oranges. Now, however, these new machines should share some similar characteristics, even though Orbis and Durango will most likely have more brute power, cores, memory, etc.. Even so, if the architectures are similar, Wii U shouldn't run into too many issues when it comes to ports. Of course, this doesn't mean we'll get these games and it certainly doesn't mean that these games will run or look as good as their Orbis/Durango counterparts. It could be like comparing a PC game on low settings to a game that runs on high/ultra. The picture should become clearer when we see a AAA game built from the ground up for Wii U. I expect Retro to deliver something amazing from a graphical standpoint, assuming their game demands high-end visuals and details.

So your saying in terms of third-party support, the Wii U should do alot better than the Wii did right?

[Crispy Bacon]

If the architectures between Wii U and Orbis/Durango are similar, I would say, by default, it should do better than Wii. How MUCH better is the big question. Ultimately, third-parties will have to decide if it's worth the time and costs to port their games to Wii U. I expect some will bite, but I think others could very well dismiss the Wii U and focus solely on Orbis/Durango development. Lots of uncertainty at this point.

[lucario23]

So your saying in terms of third-party support, the Wii U should do alot better than the Wii did right?

I think he is saying it has the potential to do a lot better

So your saying in terms of third-party support, the Wii U should do alot better than the Wii did right?

I think he is saying it has the potential to do a lot better

So your saying in terms of third-party support, the Wii U should do alot better than the Wii did right?

I think he is saying it has the potential to do a lot better

[The Lonely Koopa]

I think he is saying it has the potential to do a lot better



I think he is saying it has the potential to do a lot better



I think he is saying it has the potential to do a lot better

It does at minimum I believe the wii U will be able to get similar support like onlive had .

[Zinix]

My question still wasn't answered.



Does the specs prove that the PS4 and 720 will have a graphical leap large enough to cause Nintendo to lose third-party support?

All the consoles will be close in power, there won't be a HUGE gap in power like the Wii/360/PS3. I doubt the Wii U will lose much third party support.

It's really hard to say when we don't have the official specs and nobody has tore apart a 720 or PS4 yet.

Edited by Zinix, 15 January 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[BlueBlur]

Here's something i just found.

It makes me wonder seeing how SONY is in a bad spot right now and that MS is planning bundle Kinect 2.0(which already adds 100$ to the price tag), Smartglass, a Projector ,and AR readers with the 720, how could Microsoft and SONY possibly make a powerhouse console without going over 400$ ?

Edited by Big Bowsy, 15 January 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Crispy Bacon]

The thing that hurt PS3 was the inclusion of Bluray and the Cell. This ran R&D costs through the roof for Sony and that's why you got a $599 console when it launched. This clearly hurt Sony as they took a big loss on each unit sold. From what I understand, Sony is going with off-the-shelf parts for PS4, which will allow them to build a powerful machine for much less. They won't be hampered with a costly/complicated CPU and Bluray drives are much cheaper than they were then. The format is much more common today than it was then.

As for Microsoft, they can build a behemoth and take a loss on hardware if they choose to. They can afford it. There's also talk that Microsoft could offer multiple SKUs, one including a subscription/contract model where you purchase the console for, let's say, $199-$299. Then, per contract, you pay off the rest over time. This could be quite appealing to consumers who have little funds, but want the experience right away. It looks more attractive than a price tag that reads $600.

Edited by Crispy Bacon, 15 January 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[The Lonely Koopa]

^and there you have it folks..................... Nintendo is Doomed

Edited by The Lonely Koopa, 15 January 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[Lebon14]

Here's something i just found.

It makes me wonder seeing how SONY is in a bad spot right now and that MS is planning bundle Kinect 2.0(which already adds 100$ to the price tag), Smartglass, a Projector ,and AR readers with the 720, how could Microsoft and SONY possibly make a powerhouse console without going over 400$ ?

Very good point. I don't think Microsoft and Sony are willing to sell a fully equipped and power-house console for that price. I don't they'll be willing to make a 500$ loss on every console they sell. It's illogical.

I call BS on the specs too. Why?
I see the "Orbis" has a x86 CPU according to the specs. Wait, what did I say already? A x86 CPU? Quite literally, if somebody would be willing to do so, they could install Windows or Linux on it if they have the right drivers. Because, yes, Intel and AMD CPUs sold for laptop and desktops for Windows are x86 CPUs (x86-x64 exactly, since they both support 32 and 64 bits instructions).

The AMD 8xxx GPUs aren't even out and on top of that, and I follow tech news mind you, I never heard of it yet. We're barely starting 2013 but still. Even if it's true, if you put an hypotethical "AMD Radeon 8970" in your powerhouse, that creates several problems :

- You are selling a 500$ GPU in a console you plan to sell less than 400$.
- That thing's heat will make your console overheat. Unless you clock it down considerably, which I don't see why you would do that on a 500$ GPU, you're gonna have a bad time. /reference semi-intended
- In relation to the point above, the thing will need a huge amount of electricity to run. Again, more failure can occur because of that.
- This is an APU? Wait... you are gonna put this huge amount of VRAM, this sh*tload of VCores, plus a multi-core CPU in a SINGLE chip. HAHAHAHAHA. Right. If anybody purchased a laptop with an AMD APU, the graphical part is more powerful than an Intel but still! If it can run COD:MW2 with 20-25 FPS at minimum, it's the best you are gonna get! No way they are gonna put an high-end GPU chip in an APU this thing will melt! Also, even if you have the best GPU, if the CPU is using 100% of its power, it's gonna be the bottleneck. Unless this is a GPGPU like the WiiU, I can see a bottleneck easily happening. I would fire the whole engineer team for choosing this.

I could go on and on. But, I'm stopping here.

[Crispy Bacon]

Very good point. I don't think Microsoft and Sony are willing to sell a fully equipped and power-house console for that price. I don't they'll be willing to make a 500$ loss on every console they sell. It's illogical.

I call BS on the specs too. Why?
I see the "Orbis" has a x86 CPU according to the specs. Wait, what did I say already? A x86 CPU? Quite literally, if somebody would be willing to do so, they could install Windows or Linux on it if they have the right drivers. Because, yes, Intel and AMD CPUs sold for laptop and desktops for Windows are x86 CPUs (x86-x64 exactly, since they both support 32 and 64 bits instructions).

The AMD 8xxx GPUs aren't even out and on top of that, and I follow tech news mind you, I never heard of it yet. We're barely starting 2013 but still. Even if it's true, if you put an hypotethical "AMD Radeon 8970" in your powerhouse, that creates several problems :

- You are selling a 500$ GPU in a console you plan to sell less than 400$.
- That thing's heat will make your console overheat. Unless you clock it down considerably, which I don't see why you would do that on a 500$ GPU, you're gonna have a bad time. /reference semi-intended
- In relation to the point above, the thing will need a huge amount of electricity to run. Again, more failure can occur because of that.
- This is an APU? Wait... you are gonna put this huge amount of VRAM, this sh*tload of VCores, plus a multi-core CPU in a SINGLE chip. HAHAHAHAHA. Right. If anybody purchased a laptop with an AMD APU, the graphical part is more powerful than an Intel but still! If it can run COD:MW2 with 20-25 FPS at minimum, it's the best you are gonna get! No way they are gonna put an high-end GPU chip in an APU this thing will melt! Also, even if you have the best GPU, if the CPU is using 100% of its power, it's gonna be the bottleneck. Unless this is a GPGPU like the WiiU, I can see a bottleneck easily happening. I would fire the whole engineer team for choosing this.

I could go on and on. But, I'm stopping here.

Console manufacturers won't pay anywhere near that retail cost of $500 per GPU. They'll get these components for much cheaper since they're purchasing bulk quantities for mass production.

As far as heat/power consumption, I agree, though I guess it would depend on the final die size for the chips. You obviously want these chips to be manufactured on a small process, but I would imagine that's quite challenging especially if the off-the-shelf equivalent is bleeding edge and high-end. At that point, down-clocking would probably be the most realistic solution to getting these chips into a console case.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how Orbis/Durango are engineered and if they can house all that power(assuming these specs are accurate/close) without hardware failure.

[cannonshane]

Specs don't mean jack crap. If Nintendo can pump out a few quality first party titles and also get the backing of a few major third party titles it wont worry them at all.

[Zinix]

Specs don't mean jack crap. If Nintendo can pump out a few quality first party titles and also get the backing of a few major third party titles it wont worry them at all.

Developers don't really want to support something that isn't powerful, the Wii is a perfect example of this. It got no third party support because it was barely more powerful than the original Xbox.

Luckily the Wii U isn't going to be another Wii.

[cannonshane]

It can run games in 1080P, I really do not understand all the spec ho's that whine and cry about the wii u. If you wanted the most powerful console on the market you should have waited. Obviously The ps4 and next xbox will have better spec's as they will probably have over a year for extra development. People need to learn to enjoy games for what they are, Which is Fun. Games can be a tonne of fun and don't have to have world leading graphics to be fun.

People can sit on internet forums all day and argue with each other about which console is better and has better graphics etc etc, But at the end of the day no matter what console you own if you can sit down, play it and have a good time who gives a crap if another console has a slightly better or 10x better CPU etc. Get over it and enjoy the games.

Edited by cannonshane, 15 January 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Crispy Bacon]

Here's how I see it:

The Wii gave us beautiful games like Mario Galaxy 1/2, Metroid Prime 3, Metroid: Other M, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Xenoblade, etc....

If we can get games like that on the Wii, the mind boggles at what kind of output we'll see from Nintendo and their first-party entries on the Wii U, a system that is multitudes more powerful than the Wii.

I'm drooling at the thought!

[Zinix]

The Wii U spec-wise really isn't bad. It's just that all the haters saw that hacker report the clock speed of the CPU (which it was at an idle state) and they automatically assuming it's weak. The CPU might not be very "good, but it has a fantastic modern GPU.

It was pretty obvious that Sony and Microsoft would of had more powerful consoles, BUT the leap won't be as huge as the PS3/360. People are expecting these gaming PCs from Sony and Microsoft. One of them are on the verge of financially collapsing while the other company can afford a loss. I'm not paying attention to these "rumored" spec sheets, because the majority of them are rubbish. None of them have been accurate and it seems like it's just some Sony fan or Xbox fan anonymously sending these specs in those cause trouble. Like I said, the Wii U/ Orbris/720 will all be close in power. The gap between them won't be as huge as the Wii/360/PS3 gap. Nintendo underestimated the competition and they didn't expect that HD would become as big as it did.

TLDR: The Wii U will be a decent piece of hardware, the PS4 and 720 will be 2x or 3x more powerful.

[KingBoo]

Ok i make this clear, These specs show that the PS4 and Nextbox are going to be powerhouses,Third partys are going to abandon the Wiiu like they did the Wii, Nintendo suffered major losses and are having problem selling the Wii U as we speak, Interest in the Wii U isnt as big as interest in the Wii was, first party ips won't be enough to keep Nintendo afloat this time video game sales are low,

Do the math Nintendo is finished.

cool story bro, tell it again!

[thunderspider]

My question still wasn't answered.



Does the specs prove that the PS4 and 720 will have a graphical leap large enough to cause Nintendo to lose third-party support?

The leap doesn't matter that much. You see tha gamecube for example, more powerful than ps2, and still with not massive support. I mean, even with more or less power, will not change the fact that Nintendo consoles will not have full thirds support. Maybe a good support, better than wii , gamecube and n64, but, nothing like SNES era. I think Nintendo must convince them to at least make some key multi plat titles, and exclusives like Bayonetta 2

[Zinix]

The leap doesn't matter that much. You see tha gamecube for example, more powerful than ps2, and still with not massive support. I mean, even with more or less power, will not change the fact that Nintendo consoles will not have full thirds support. Maybe a good support, better than wii , gamecube and n64, but, nothing like SNES era. I think Nintendo must convince them to at least make some key multi plat titles, and exclusives like Bayonetta 2

^
True.

Example of this is the Vita. The 3DS is inferior yet it has a much better library.

[cannonshane]

^^ Exactly, Its all about the games not which machine has the most power or best specs. If Nintendo can produce some killer first party titles then all will be good. Don't forget Nintendo has already stated that the second a person purchases a Wii U title they have already made money even with losing out on the initial console purchase.