135 replies to this topic

[ElderKnight77]

The reflections in the Killzone vid far exceed what the wiiU has shown itself to be able to do and in all likelihood is more then the wiiU will be able to do. Is that a problem, well yes and no. Nintendo have once again not backed power, rather a gimmick, which we have yet to see how much that will entice people.

I actually love the 'gimmicks' Nintendo creates (obviously Sony does too with the rampant imitations they do) and gives me a reason to pick up their systems. I love how the X360 trumps the PS3 not only in visuals but innovation as well (Kinect is 10x better than MOVE).

Yeah just trying to point out that the killzone shot is nothing new. And the Killzone models do look very much like ACIII character models.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL THIS TIME!!! I don't know what all the hype is over the PS4 as they have shown nothing to say they are leagues apart from the current-gen systems (let alone the Wii U). It's obvious that the system is a step or two above the PS360; but I don't see it lapping those systems either. If the PS4 sells for anything above $400, it would be a massive waste as the PS360 at their current price point offer similar visual effect with identical ways to play. The PS4 aside from great visuals have not shown an evolution for gameplay.

[3Dude]

I actually love the 'gimmicks' Nintendo creates (obviously Sony does too with the rampant imitations they do) and gives me a reason to pick up their systems. I love how the X360 trumps the PS3 not only in visuals but innovation as well (Kinect is 10x better than MOVE).
THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL THIS TIME!!! I don't know what all the hype is over the PS4 as they have shown nothing to say they are leagues apart from the current-gen systems (let alone the Wii U). It's obvious that the system is a step or two above the PS360; but I don't see it lapping those systems either. If the PS4 sells for anything above $400, it would be a massive waste as the PS360 at their current price point offer similar visual effect with identical ways to play. The PS4 aside from great visuals have not shown an evolution for gameplay.

Well, apparantly they havent shown enough 'raw power' wise to get everybody excited to feel that its a huge difference...

But the way theyve shown games is many MANY times more exciting than how nintendos pretty much refused to show anything from anyone, despite us KNOWING they have games worth showing off, right here, right now, that would be everybit as exciting and eye candy filled as kill zone.

We all know Retros title is being worked on, and is going to be gorgeous. But they refuse to show us.

Points to Sony, on grounds of forfeit.

[routerbad]

I Dont know whats going on in here, or if people REALLY are trying to debate whether wii u somehow keeps up with ps4 specs (it doesnt, its outclassed 3 or 4 times).

But that guys post and explanation are complete crap, particularly on the subject hes talking about, which is wii u open world games vs ps360 open world games (a far cry from the on rails with cool backdrop ariel shot of killzone 4)

He points out one sharp corner, and calls the entire game low poly compared to 360 open world games like skyrim, and erroneously calls a cache miss (very common in alpha/beta and easily fixed) pop up. Among other dubious 'breakdowns'.

Protip: pop in is a level of detail tool used to give better details up close, while saving resources at distances considered to far to see.

Foilage pop in happens far away, at the line where there is no foilage and foilage.

Not at the very front in a random chunk, where tons of foilage is already rendered.

He wasnt comparing ps4 to wii u, he was attempting to say THIS



(Good image, its pc unmodded, so even with the slider on low settings... Its STILL superior to skyrim 360, and even all the way on high, heavily inferior to X).

is superior or equivilant.
to THIS.



Just looking at the land formation being stood upon alone is enough to know you really shouldnt be using this guys breakdown for your argument.

All its doing is spreading cracks that can be exploited by dubious arguments that would otherwise have no foothold.

I was just trying to say that what they've shown is not exactly groundbreaking, it's all been done before. Good on them for showing any footage at all, though I have a feeling it may come back to bite them if they can't deliver that and more in game, on the actual hardware. Sony have gone too far with target renders before and tried to sell them as in game footage.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that just going on raw power that the PS4 "outclasses" the Wii U. I think that it does offer more performance potential in many situations, but saying that it outclasses it 3-4x would imply 3-4X actual graphics ability, which I don't think is the case. Then there's the issue with efficiency, I think Nintendo have a case going forward that the same level of graphics fidelity can be achieved through efficiency with lower powered hardware.

Obviously you are smarter here, and I'll continue to defer to you. I'm thinking about the consoles and the environments holistically. There is more to it than just raw hardware power, which has been proven in generations past as well.

[3Dude]

I was just trying to say that what they've shown is not exactly groundbreaking, it's all been done before. Good on them for showing any footage at all, though I have a feeling it may come back to bite them if they can't deliver that and more in game, on the actual hardware. Sony have gone too far with target renders before and tried to sell them as in game footage.
Also, I don't think it's fair to say that just going on raw power that the PS4 "outclasses" the Wii U. I think that it does offer more performance potential in many situations, but saying that it outclasses it 3-4x would imply 3-4X actual graphics ability, which I don't think is the case. Then there's the issue with efficiency, I think Nintendo have a case going forward that the same level of graphics fidelity can be achieved through efficiency with lower powered hardware.
Obviously you are smarter here, and I'll continue to defer to you. I'm thinking about the consoles and the environments holistically. There is more to it than just raw hardware power, which has been proven in generations past as well.

3-4x could be pretty generous, and it matters less and less and less with every day that passes.

It used to be that simply doubling a models polygons made mind blowing differences.

Now you can go from a bust with 6,000 polygons to 60,000 and the difference is incredibly miniscule as an end result. Most people would NOT be able to tell which was which.

Every bit of it is THERE and requires all the power to render, but its just nowhere NEAR as big a difference visually as 600 to 6,000 polygons.

Weve been experiencing diminishing returns for some time now.

http://imgur.com/gallery/aFKEttJ

Edited by 3Dude, 25 February 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[thunderspider]

Well, it looks like the numbers had lowered, first, many of us thinking about 4 to 6 times, now apparently, is 3 to 4. But, now i have another question, how these numbers will be in the games?i mean , it will look like a 4 times more powerful console? or we have a chance to look to a playstation to n64 or sixth gen scenario?

[3Dude]

Well, it looks like the numbers had lowered, first, many of us thinking about 4 to 6 times, now apparently, is 3 to 4. But, now i have another question, how these numbers will be in the games?i mean , it will look like a 4 times more powerful console? or we have a chance to look to a playstation to n64 or sixth gen scenario?

Well, it looks like the numbers had lowered, first, many of us thinking about 4 to 6 times, now apparently, is 3 to 4. But, now i have another question, how these numbers will be in the games?i mean , it will look like a 4 times more powerful console? or we have a chance to look to a playstation to n64 or sixth gen scenario?

Hardware power is the least relevant factor now.

How good the games look is going to be directly proportional to the amount of money put into the visuals and the talent of the art team.

[thunderspider]

Hardware power is the least relevant factor now.

How good the games look is going to be directly proportional to the amount of money put into the visuals and the talent of the art team.

And this is excellent, it means they need to put effort to do something creative, and not just push graphics

[routerbad]

And this is excellent, it means they need to put effort to do something creative, and not just push graphics

Creativity can lead to better graphical representations, but yeah, in essence, it isn't all about more polygons anymore.

[Mewbot]

3-4x could be pretty generous, and it matters less and less and less with every day that passes.

It used to be that simply doubling a models polygons made mind blowing differences.

Now you can go from a bust with 6,000 polygons to 60,000 and the difference is incredibly miniscule as an end result. Most people would NOT be able to tell which was which.

Every bit of it is THERE and requires all the power to render, but its just nowhere NEAR as big a difference visually as 600 to 6,000 polygons.

Weve been experiencing diminishing returns for some time now.

http://imgur.com/gallery/aFKEttJ

Do you think diminishing returns is why this last generation went on for so much longer than previous ones?

[LinkKennedy]

This question could easily be answered if 3rd party developers would release their game on the WiiU and we could just compare a ps4 to wiiU. Outside of that it's rather simple to say the PS4 wins simply because the specs are better but like I said no games to compare the system as of yet and plus the PS4 ain't even out yet.

[syks-1]

Killzone was not that impressive. Also, Killzone 1 and 2 looked good for their time in trailers, but absolutely terrible when you actually played them. I don't think that was live at any rate, I think they were showing a pre-made video.

lol killzone 1 and 2 looked AMAZING in there final game play state,i know this is a wii u forum but come on,ps4 BLOWS the wiiu away graphically already,never have i seen such fanboys as wii u ones...the wii u is a dissapointment that comes NOWHERE near the graphics of the ps4.

[3Dude]

Killzone was not that impressive. Also, Killzone 1 and 2 looked good for their time in trailers, but absolutely terrible when you actually played them. I don't think that was live at any rate, I think they were showing a pre-made video.
lol killzone 1 and 2 looked AMAZING in there final game play state,i know this is a wii u forum but come on,ps4 BLOWS the wiiu away graphically already,never have i seen such fanboys as wii u ones...the wii u is a dissapointment that comes NOWHERE near the graphics of the ps4.

Killzone 1 was a complete terd, all around, that got laughably buried by halo 2 and mp echoes in every conceivable way. Even on the ps2 there were much much better looking and playing games.

Maybe if the wii u was DESIGNED and marketed to be a powerhouse console it could be considered a dissapointment, but it wasnt. Ps4 and xbone, however, were, and failed miserably. Its the smallest jump in history, and by the time they launch they will already be outclassed by mid range pc's, and within months by low end pc's. Their games by and large failed to meet even the bare minimum of 1080p standard, making the expectations their fans had of 4k comical. And the framerate STILL isnt getting to 60 Fps... dead rising 3 was just revealed to be 720p 30fps.

Wii u is an underdog, surprising people left and right by doing things they dismissed it as not being able to do... While ps4 and xbone are failing expectations left and right, not meeting the bare minimum stuff fans expected.

And since the design is little more than an off the shelf apu with a tablet cpu and x86 architecture.... any game on xbone or ps4 can be insta ported to pc with better performance and graphics. Why would anyone spend money on ps4/xbone, when they can take grandmas old i5, slap a $60 graphics card in it, and play 99% of the same games at 1080p 60fps?

[syks-1]

lol

[Gaymer]

^ When you've lost an argument and have nothing else to say. Lol.

[NintendoReport]

lol

[SoldMyWiiU]

Wii U doesn't have nearly as much power as the Ps4, don't kid yourself.

 

I can see the Wii U hardware getting maxed very quickly with 2gb ram and the "card" inside it, topple that with devlopers who don't know how to program it.

 

The ps4 will take awhile longer, in 3+ years some really beautiful games will come from that system and will really hit it's stride around the 4/5 year mark.

[grahamf]

Wii U doesn't have nearly as much power as the Ps4, don't kid yourself.

 

I can see the Wii U hardware getting maxed very quickly with 2gb ram and the "card" inside it, topple that with devlopers who don't know how to program it.

 

The ps4 will take awhile longer, in 3+ years some really beautiful games will come from that system and will really hit it's stride around the 4/5 year mark.

Maybe, but remember that the PS4 is just a midrange PC. I could build a PC for $300-$500 dollars that is nearly identical. Any developer that has worked with PCs would be very familiar with the hardware. There may be room for improvement, but that's only going to be optimization. And you have to remember the Wii U will still only uses less than 40W or so. 

[syks-1]

Dont know why everyone keeps saying "the ps4 is only a mid range pc" what does that make the wii u then? a budget pc lol the ps4 still has some custom bits in it plus killzone 4 absolutely BLOWS EVERY wii u game thats been released and thats been shown but not released yet away graphically and in every way.

 

i wanted to love the wii u i really did but it was/is a MASSIVE let down really all round

[grahamf]

Dont know why everyone keeps saying "the ps4 is only a mid range pc" what does that make the wii u then? a budget pc lol the ps4 still has some custom bits in it plus killzone 4 absolutely BLOWS EVERY wii u game thats been released and thats been shown but not released yet away graphically and in every way.

 

i wanted to love the wii u i really did but it was/is a MASSIVE let down really all round

People call the PS4 a midrange PC because the hardware is identical. Nintendo's Wii U uses very custom silicone, so it's not as directly comparable. Heck, for all we know it has 8 cores and Nintendo unlocks them just before the 4One launches.

 

Oh, and what custom bits does the PS4 have? A special connector for the PSEye?

Edited by grahamf, 08 November 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[3Dude]

Dont know why everyone keeps saying "the ps4 is only a mid range pc" what does that make the wii u then? a budget pc lol the ps4 still has some custom bits in it plus killzone 4 absolutely BLOWS EVERY wii u game thats been released and thats been shown but not released yet away graphically and in every way.
 
i wanted to love the wii u i really did but it was/is a MASSIVE let down really all round

Actually, bayonetta 2 models 100k+ polycounts crush killzone 4's 40k models. So, no, its not in every way.

No one CARES what that 'makes' wii u, because no one here was stupid enough to think the wii u, with its case size and power draw,and nintendos statements, was EVER at ANY POINT meant to be a powerhouse. People are dissapointed with ps4, because its NOWHERE NEAR powerful enough to be a standard generational leap, and it WAS hyped up and marketed to be such.

Wii u expectations were low, and its nice when it exceeds them, which it does, a lot. PS4/xbone expectations were super high, and its dissapointing when it fails them, which it does... a lot.

Its very simple.

Wii U doesn't have nearly as much power as the Ps4, don't kid yourself.
 
I can see the Wii U hardware getting maxed very quickly with 2gb ram and the "card" inside it, topple that with devlopers who don't know how to program it.
 
The ps4 will take awhile longer, in 3+ years some really beautiful games will come from that system and will really hit it's stride around the 4/5 year mark.

Thats completely nonsensical.

The commador 64 is still in the process of being maxxed.