43 replies to this topic

[Hari]

Ohh how I envy you. Here in Australia getting 500kb a second would be a Godsend.

My download speed is 20mb and I live in Mexico

[Joshua]

Wow really feel for ya man, and they want cloud gaming to be the future, it would be an epic fail with the way the world's broadbands speeds are :/

Pretty much EVERY Australian is against cloud gaming for that reason alone.

My download speed is 20mb and I live in Mexico

A mate of mine from the Philippines says his net connection is around 20mb.

[dragomix]

The important thing is that Wii is EMULATED on Wii U! Wii U don't have Three enhanced Broadway Cores for sure!

[Alex Wolfers]

My friend's internet is not wifi and the modem is clear across the house so basicaly you are saying since they cant get their Wii U online they are screwed?

[Gamejunkie]

My friend's internet is not wifi and the modem is clear across the house so basicaly you are saying since they cant get their Wii U online they are screwed?

Not really. Your friend can always use home plugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug

[Desert Punk]

The important thing is that Wii is EMULATED on Wii U! Wii U don't have Three enhanced Broadway Cores for sure!

You would still need a software layer with wii u when operating in wii mode and its still being stated that the wii u only runs wii games in their original resolutions 480i, 480p or 576p not upscaled.

It's likely the original wii gpu is inside the wii u, the enhanced broadways operate in a wii compatibility mode but other processes may be emulated like sound, any required functionality of the arm star chip or whatever its called and possibly other memory features. The ps3 still had software updates for ps2 compatibility even for the ps3 that had both the ps2 gpu and cpu internally to run ps2 games. I think its highly likely the wii u has the original wii gpu fitted with the built in 2 meg frame buffer and 1 meg texture cache at the very minimum if its to achieve a high level of compatibility.

It seems like the software of the wii u is going to be in a bit of a raw state when you get it out of the box for the first time.

[3Dude]

You would still need a software layer with wii u when operating in wii mode and its still being stated that the wii u only runs wii games in their original resolutions 480i, 480p or 576p not upscaled.

It's likely the original wii gpu is inside the wii u, the enhanced broadways operate in a wii compatibility mode but other processes may be emulated like sound, any required functionality of the arm star chip or whatever its called and possibly other memory features. The ps3 still had software updates for ps2 compatibility even for the ps3 that had both the ps2 gpu and cpu internally to run ps2 games. I think its highly likely the wii u has the original wii gpu fitted with the built in 2 meg frame buffer and 1 meg texture cache at the very minimum if its to achieve a high level of compatibility.

It seems like the software of the wii u is going to be in a bit of a raw state when you get it out of the box for the first time.

Programmable shader gpu's dont need special hardware. Its far too easy to emulate fixed function gpu's, Its almost like its fixed function or something. You only need working knowledge of the api's. There is no wii gpu in wii u. The update is likely software instructions to emulate wii's fixed function tev.

We know from the iwata asks tear down that special hardware was added in alongside the wii u circuits for wii cpu bc. This was not the case for wii, as wii WAS gc, except overclocked and with more ram. Starlet was simply an i/o that cut off access to resources the gc didnt have, turning the wii into gc at hardware level.

ppc 7xx (broadway line) was discontinued ages ago, never manufactured at 45nm, has no support whatsoever of symmetric multiprocessing, so you cant have a 3core broadway no matter how much you 'enhance' it, and obviously has no support for the kind of on die edram cache like the wii u cpu has.

We know for a fact wii u's cpu isnt broadway. You dont need to add in 7xx compatable circuits if you are using a 7xx series.

'Enhanced broadway'=broadway enhanced, special hardware has been added to the wii u cpu to provide a compatable frontend for bc with wii. There is no broadway cpu.

Numerous devs with HEAVY wii/gc knowledge have gone on record stating their misuse of the wii u cpu SERIOUSLY crippled performance, having the cpu performing as little as 1/6th the capacity as they currently have it now that they have optimised their engines to the wii u's new cpu.

This would not be a thing with broadway cpu's.

There is no broadway in wii u. This is a fact.

Edited by 3Dude, 11 November 2012 - 05:15 AM.

[Desert Punk]

3Dude you really haven't got a clue and the only way you could know anything about the wii u spec for a fact is if you were actually involved closely in developing for it. We have had this argument before and I'm tired of it, you are so utterly arrogent that its near pointless to respond. Clearly any customised cpu could be designed based on the broadway cpu if necessary. Again its best we play the waiting game on this one as we are not long from reality hitting home with the wii u likely x-rayed to see it's internal layout of its circuitry at some point and no doubt a full release of its specification. The wii u just isn't powerful enough to fully emulate the wii and for a cpu to fully run wii code it has to be similar in architecture. Clearly if the wii u can not run wii games at upscaled resolution especially when the wii u gpu is almost certain to have built in hardware upscaling circuitry then wii graphics are being created seperately in another gpu with no connection to that hardware upscaler. There has already been a lot of comments that the wii u can upscale wii u games to 1080p even if the native resolution is 720p and that's why there has been some announcements that the wii u runs 1080p versions of games and those have now been withdrawn. For example Black Ops 2 was originally going to be 1080p but is now 720p even though the wii u will output upscaled 1080p for that game.

Sadly the wii u is not a powerhouse, everything is pointing to a console with a more powerful gpu, better memory bandwidth, more memory but a cpu that is similar and possibly weaker to current gen overall. Its still an upgrade but not a huge jump.

To just state there is no wii gpu or broadway in the wii u this is a fact seems utterly mad. Either the console is soo incredibly powerful that it can fully emulate the wii which has a zero chance or the hardware has to be configured for wii compatibility meaning to a wii game everything has to appear identical to a wii console including all timing etc. It is highly likely at least one cpu core in the wii u which can fully operate as a broadway cpu just like the wii with the same timing etc or the wii u simply won't be compatible with wii games. I'll admit there is a chance that the broadway of the wii is emulated but this most certainly would mean the wii gpu is in the wii u. This would basically be the same situation as the later ps3 which was ps2 compatible which had the same gpu as ps2 but emulated the mips cpu. However the cell in the ps3 is likely to be more powerful than the wii u cpu arrangement and the ps2 cpu was weak to say the least so much easier to emulate and even then ps2 compatibility on that ps3 model was fairly poor. Wii compatibility on wii u is meant to be very good.

Anyway we aren't long now from reality hitting home. I personally would love to be wrong though and the wii u super powerful with a great gpu and cpu but that is not the information that is being released. We are not seeing enhanced versions of multi-format titles except for gamepad functionality. What we have been seeing in some instances is features being removed. Not gpu features of course but features that are cpu intensive. Yet those features are available on 360 and PS3.

There are only 2 real reasons for Nintendo to compromise cpu performance one is cost and the other is to make a wii compatible cpu. I would suggest both reasons are combined in a multi-core cpu that is cheap to make and also runs wii code.

The point is too that if the wii u gpu does take on board certain features that a normal cpu is responsible for and we are still seeing wii u games losing cpu features it is even more likely the cpu setup is weak.

[CUD]

Ohh how I envy you. Here in Australia getting 500kb a second would be a Godsend.

I'm also Australian but I easily get 500kb/s, usually 600-700kb/s, I have friends with cable internet that have no problem getting many a mb/s. So it just depends on your plan and where you live, things will get better when they finally implement this NBN in more areas.

[Wolfy]

For people stuck in the 90's they should make it so that Wii U games have the update installed on the disc, I doubt it would be a large file.

[Guy Fieri]

Maybe later Wii U games will come with the update pre installed on the disc. Remember how Mario 3D Land came with the update that improved the 3DS Friend System a little bit? Or how the Wii always checks for the latest update when you put a certain game in? ( like a recently released first party game).

[3Dude]

3Dude you really haven't got a clue and the only way you could know anything about the wii u spec for a fact is if you were actually involved closely in developing for it. We have had this argument before and I'm tired of it, you are so utterly arrogent that its near pointless to respond. Clearly any customised cpu could be designed based on the broadway cpu if necessary. Again its best we play the waiting game on this one as we are not long from reality hitting home with the wii u likely x-rayed to see it's internal layout of its circuitry at some point and no doubt a full release of its specification. The wii u just isn't powerful enough to fully emulate the wii and for a cpu to fully run wii code it has to be similar in architecture. Clearly if the wii u can not run wii games at upscaled resolution especially when the wii u gpu is almost certain to have built in hardware upscaling circuitry then wii graphics are being created seperately in another gpu with no connection to that hardware upscaler. There has already been a lot of comments that the wii u can upscale wii u games to 1080p even if the native resolution is 720p and that's why there has been some announcements that the wii u runs 1080p versions of games and those have now been withdrawn. For example Black Ops 2 was originally going to be 1080p but is now 720p even though the wii u will output upscaled 1080p for that game.

Sadly the wii u is not a powerhouse, everything is pointing to a console with a more powerful gpu, better memory bandwidth, more memory but a cpu that is similar and possibly weaker to current gen overall. Its still an upgrade but not a huge jump.

To just state there is no wii gpu or broadway in the wii u this is a fact seems utterly mad. Either the console is soo incredibly powerful that it can fully emulate the wii which has a zero chance or the hardware has to be configured for wii compatibility meaning to a wii game everything has to appear identical to a wii console including all timing etc. It is highly likely at least one cpu core in the wii u which can fully operate as a broadway cpu just like the wii with the same timing etc or the wii u simply won't be compatible with wii games. I'll admit there is a chance that the broadway of the wii is emulated but this most certainly would mean the wii gpu is in the wii u. This would basically be the same situation as the later ps3 which was ps2 compatible which had the same gpu as ps2 but emulated the mips cpu. However the cell in the ps3 is likely to be more powerful than the wii u cpu arrangement and the ps2 cpu was weak to say the least so much easier to emulate and even then ps2 compatibility on that ps3 model was fairly poor. Wii compatibility on wii u is meant to be very good.

Anyway we aren't long now from reality hitting home. I personally would love to be wrong though and the wii u super powerful with a great gpu and cpu but that is not the information that is being released. We are not seeing enhanced versions of multi-format titles except for gamepad functionality. What we have been seeing in some instances is features being removed. Not gpu features of course but features that are cpu intensive. Yet those features are available on 360 and PS3.

There are only 2 real reasons for Nintendo to compromise cpu performance one is cost and the other is to make a wii compatible cpu. I would suggest both reasons are combined in a multi-core cpu that is cheap to make and also runs wii code.

The point is too that if the wii u gpu does take on board certain features that a normal cpu is responsible for and we are still seeing wii u games losing cpu features it is even more likely the cpu setup is weak.

The difference between arrogance and confidence is competence.

Since it is clear you do not have a formal computer science education yet insist on throwing your idle opinions on this subject, it would behoove you, at the very LEAST, to use the magical power of the internet to do some research.

No, REAL research, educate yourself with technical journals, not posting links to crap articles that alrady support your loaded opinion which are then taken down, amended, and apologized for being fake.

This crap where you hurl a bunch of ad hominum, and then proceed to 'defeat' things i never said (this is called a strawman, replacing a strong argument you cant defeat with a different one you can) is getting REALLY old, and hasnt worked for you once.

When did i ever say anything about resolution? when have i EVER said anything about a powerhouse wii u? Broadway is 2001 tech, and honestly can be easily argued older. There is 11 years worth of technology from 2001 to now. There are more possibilities in 11 years of advancement than an ancient broadway or a modern powerhouse, you arent fooling anyone. Lying like this requires a certain skillset to pull off that you just dont have. So stop.

Or at the very least, use the internet to keep up with current events, where you dont even need an education as long as you have the basic ability to read and some deductive reasoning skills, you wont get caught in the embarrassitng mess you are about to be in.... Again.

Yeah, reality is a harsh mistress. However, while you are hiding behind a future teardown to buy you time. Its already too late for you. An x ray is not needed. The engineers already said its a completely different structure than the wii.

http://iwataasks.nin...iiu/console/0/2

Seriously dude, as adamant as you are about trolling this topic, why havent you read this so you can... Not suck so bad at this?

Reality check 1:
Especially since the Wii U had to be backwards compatible with Wii.


Shiota:
Yes. The designers were already incredibly familiar with the Wii, so without getting hung up on the two machines' completely different structures.

Um, if the cpu's are both broadways, why is it a complety different structure?

Answer: Its not broadway.

Reality check #2:
There were times when you would usually just incorporate both the Wii U and Wii circuits, like 1+1

Um, if the wii u had a broadway in it, why would it need to add in circuits from broadway to make it compatable with... Broadway?

Answer: Its not Broadway.

I could go on to the rest of your nonsense, like how you have no idea what fixed function is, and how that relates to programmable shaders, but at this point, continuing to point out everything wrong with what you say would just be beating a dead horse.

Edited by 3Dude, 11 November 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Nollog]

My question is:
Do we Europeans also have to update, or will out later shipped consoles come with the firmware already?

[3Dude]

My question is:
Do we Europeans also have to update, or will our later shipped consoles come with the firmware already?

Its nintendo, ill give you two guesses, and the first one doesnt count.

[Nollog]

Its nintendo, ill give you two guesses, and the first one doesnt count.

It will?
It won't?!

Oh good news, the update will already be on the console!
Thanks.

[3Dude]

It will?
It won't?!

Oh good news, the update will already be on the console!
Thanks.

I was going to say not only would it not come on the console, but the update wouldnt be available for the first month for no apparant reason.

Probably to make up for not screwing europe over with xenoblade, cause waiting 18 days for the wii u system isnt enough.

But good for you guys.

My guess is the download is the wii tev, api's and instructions to the programmable shaders on how to 'fix' themselves to emulate gekko/broadway.

[Dragon]

It will?
It won't?!

Oh good news, the update will already be on the console!
Thanks.

Nollog, everybody! *crowd cheers and claps*

[MatrixChicken]

How many people don't have internet nowadays that want a gaming console??? I would guess not very many. But hey, that's just me.

This won't be causing me a problem. We have decent-ish internet here, so it should be fine.

[Blake]

You would think this would be a problem for casual players. I hope you can select the update when you first boot-up the system.

Edited by Blake, 12 November 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Nollog]

Everyone here knows the real reasons for this right?
1. they can rush hardware production.
2. they can get the connection rate for their console to a high number.

It's part of a plan, it's not down to them being stupid or saying as most of you are saying "sure everyone has internet nowadays, no big deal".